What are your beleifs regarding personal identity (1 Viewer)

[Serius]

I wasnt sure where to put this, but i thought this would be a good spot because its an interesting philosophical debate firstly, and it also can branch out into other areas such as repercussions of euthanasia,organ transplants/ prosthetics, cloning, teleportation, all that cool stuff.

Play this short game, it assesses what your beliefs are regarding personality identity
Stayling Alive then put down what you came up with.

How do you justify that particular position regarding identity? do you think this is a majority view? how would opinions, either yours or deviating ones affect policies and decisions regarding new and upcoming technology?

If you are brain dead, but still breathing because of machines, are YOU, the person who is you, still alive?

Imagine a perfect clone of your body and brain so that the clone has all of your memories and believes itself to be you, is it you? what if the body you currently reside in was destroyed at the same time as this perfect copy was made, is that still you?

This one is my favourite. Ok there is an operation called split brain surgery where the connections between the two hemispheres are severed, the person still operates relatively normally, there are some minor differences but the layman wouldn't pick that person out to be odd or different.

There have also been cases where people have survived with an entire hemisphere thats been destroyed, and whilst they are fucked up, they are still a person and can still live, move around, think, some of them can speak etc, they still have memories from before the damage, so to all intents and purposes they are still the same person.
Now imagine in the future there is a brain transplant operation that takes say crippled peoples brains and puts them into the recently deceased heads of people who donated their bodies, it all works and they wake up in a new and working body[this isnt that abstract, we could be doing this in the near future]

Now imagine if that brain is split into two hemispheres and each half is transplanted into a separate head...so now who are you? are you lefty? are you righty? you cant be both because one person cannot be two things because say righty might be hungry when lefty is not, how can you be both hungry and not hungry? deep stuff.

Anyways thought you all could have some fun with the little game and the resulting discussion. Enjoy.

 

[Sicherhetsdient]

Sorry! You're dead!

You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!

 

[lolokay]

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

cool

 

[Sicherhetsdient]

shit thread. I killed myself anyways.

 

[study-freak]

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!
You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Freeze me!

 

[JonathanM]

It is stuffed up and wrong.

I picked these options:

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!
You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: Let the virus do its worst!
Round 3: Freeze me!

And yet it alluded to me selecting the teletransporter option in Round 1.

But is this survival of you? Is it enough for your body to continue to exist if your personality, wishes, beliefs, desires and memories do not? Remember, opting to suffer the consequences of the virus means that now you have no memories of the person you were when you stepped into the teletransporter.

Fail :/

 

[Serius]

maybe you stepped into it and then decided not to use it?

 

[DavidBenGurion]

hows bout that one where like, there's a machine and it like, destroys you and instantaneously makes a copy of you elsewhere - in effect, transporting your body as it was.

 

[KFunk]

hows bout that one where like, there's a machine and it like, destroys you and instantaneously makes a copy of you elsewhere - in effect, transporting your body as it was.

But which accidentally makes two copies.

 

[David Spade]

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!

However, although you have survived, at least one of your choices seems a little problematic.

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are just about consistent with the view that the continuity of the soul is essential for personal survival. Your first choice showed a desire to keep your physical body alive. Your second choice, in contrast, showed a willingness to have your body replaced by synthetic parts to preserve your psychological continuity. Your last choice showed a willingness to jettison your physical body and end psychological continuity in order to save your soul.

There is something troubling about these choices. First, the tracking of the soul seems a bit erratic. In the first choice, it followed the physical body, but on the second it followed psychological continuity. So it seems there is no reliable way of deciding where the soul goes - does it follow the body or psychological continuity? Secondly, the soul seems rather an empty self. It is a self that needs no thoughts, beliefs or memories to exist. It is rather a kind of immaterial home for thoughts, emotions, beliefs and so on. Do you really think the self is such a thing?

ok

 

[David Spade]

In my defense:
1. I just thought that the idea of a teletransporter sounded riskier than going in a spaceship
2. I would rather have a brain made of synthetic materials and retain me than to lose myself completely and become another person. What if the old me wouldn't like the new me? What if my new personality was shit? I like me better.
3. When it is time for me to die, I just want to die. If there is such a thing as a soul and my soul goes somewhere else without memory of me, I don't care? I won't know! It's like donating organs imo. I'm going to be dead, so I don't particularly care where my heart goes. Same as for a soul.
I like the idea of a clean death rather than being cryogenically frozen, without a 100% chance of success. And the idea of living forever is heaps gay.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

why can there not be two of me? seems like a failure of language and comprehension to me.

 

[quik.]

Sorry! You're dead!
You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Let my body die!

Round 1: I chose teletransporter because it was instant (I'm a tad impatient) + things that 'matter' would still be there, ie memories etc. You can work with the body your given to improve it etc. If the spaceship to get there was an awesome fighter spaceship and we could do battle with pirates on the way then I'd do that instead.

Round 2: Fuck yeah I'm a cyborg, kickass

Round 3: Fuck they took my cyborg powers away. I would rather pass away on my own terms then and there rather than put myself and my body through a risky procedure. Would have preferred to remain a terminator though.

 

[kami]

Staying Alive

Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: Let the virus do its worst!
Round 3: Freeze me!

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are consistent with the view that bodily continuity is necessary for personal survival. You risk death on the spaceship, allow your mind to be messed around with by the virus and allow your soul to be destroyed so that your body (or at least your brain in a body) can have a chance of staying in existence. And it does!

But is this survival of you? Is it enough for your body to continue to exist if your personality, wishes, beliefs, desires and memories do not? Remember, opting to suffer the consequences of the virus means that now you have no memories of the person you were when you stepped into the teletransporter. So is the self really no more than a particular animal body? Many think it is, but many others think that without some kind of psychological continuity, the self cannot survive as a body alone.

1. I believe clones are distinct beings from the original much like an identical twin. I would have a legacy in this clone and it would possess memories from me but it would not be me.
2. I have issues with deep surgery, especially when its involved with the brain. It freaks me out. I'd rather have a mindfuck disorder which will later stabilise.
3. Reincarnation requires death when I'm seeking survival in this scenario. Freezing is the best that can be done.

 

[Serius]

Well heres me:
Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!

You chose:
Round 1: Take me to the teletransporter!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Freeze me!

There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.

Your choices are consistent with the theory known as psychological reductionism. On this view, all that is required for the continued existence of the self is psychological continuity. Your three choices show that this is what you see as central to your sense of self, not any attachment to a particular substance, be it your body, brain or soul. However, some would say that you have not survived at all, but fallen foul of a terrible error. In the teletransporter case, for example, was it really you that travelled to Mars or is it more correct to say that a clone or copy of you was made on Mars, while you were destroyed?

Basically i beleive my thoughts, memories, patterns of behaviour etc to be core to me. Who i am is not my body, because if my brain was put in a new body i would still identify it as me, i dont even see my identity as anything physical, as long as those exact patterns can be copied, even into silicon or maybe uploaded to a computer, then i still see it as me. What is preferable though is reproductive continunuity, seen as the teletransponder, the silicon and freezing all aimed to give me the best possible chance to pass on my genes[and even if we concede that the transported version of me is just a clone, it is still genetically identical and can still reproduce] whilst striving to keep my personality intact.


I kind of think Kami, that you died when the virus messed with your head, now someone new lives in your body, someone with different hopes, dreams aspirations, patterns of behaviour, memories, skills and abilities.

 

[MaNiElla]

well, here's my result.

Staying Alive
Congratulations! According to one theory of personal identity, you have survived!
You chose:
Round 1: It's the spaceship for me!
Round 2: I'll take the silicon!
Round 3: Freeze me!
However, although you have survived, you seem to have taken an unnecessary risk.
There are basically three kinds of things which could be required for the continued existence of your self. One is bodily continuity, which actually may require only parts of the body to stay in existence (e.g., the brain). Another is psychological continuity, which requires, for the continued existence of the self, the continuance of your consciousness, by which is meant your thoughts, ideas, memories, plans, beliefs and so on. And the third possibility is the continued existence of some kind of immaterial part of you, which might be called the soul. It may, of course, be the case that a combination of one or more types of these continuity is required for you to survive.
Your choices are consistent with the theory known as psychological reductionism. On this view, all that is required for the continued existence of the self is psychological continuity. Your three choices show that this is what you see as central to your sense of self, not any attachment to a particular substance, be it your body, brain or soul.
But there is a tension. In allowing your brain and body to be replaced by synthetic parts, you seemed to be accepting that psychological continuity is what matters, not bodily continuity. But if this is the case, why did you risk the space ship instead of taking the teletransporter? You ended up allowing your body to be replaced anyway, so why did you decide to risk everything on the spaceship instead of just giving up your original body there and then?

1- I'd choose both ways, but i opted for the second, as it kinda sounded less freak-ish then the teletransporter.

2- I'll rather have brain surgery then loosing my memory. What if my character changed to the worst?

3- meh, i'd rather my soul die with me or stay with me. Im sure that it would not be of any use to the animal/ human it'll live in. Especially if it doesnt have a memory. Plus, what if the soul of a criminal/serial killer/someone with severe mental issues transfers to another human and creates another person of no use to society?

 

[sam04u]

It's stupid it should tell us all the variables in order for there to be consistancy with our answers.

You can't later add new variables like the concept of a soul which is discovered and reincarnation. It becomes nutso.

I picked teletransporter, silicone and death.

 

[HscGoldStarHero]

life = uai

 

[HscGoldStarHero]

(im studying hard)