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whys the uai going up for unsw engineering...dammit (1 Viewer)

Anonymou5

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Shouldn't the fact that you're only getting a credit average be enough of an indicator to you that 10 hours of study per week is insufficient for you?

UAI doesn't necessarily indicate intelligence (although at the top end of the scale it does, you're deluded to suggest otherwise). However if you're lazy in high school and adopt the mentality that I "only" need an 80 or whatever the bare minimum is to get into your course, chances are that you'll think the same way once you get to uni. "Oh, passes get degrees."
 

Just James

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Anonymou5 said:
Shouldn't the fact that you're only getting a credit average be enough of an indicator to you that 10 hours of study per week is insufficient for you?
Excuse me, you're not even at uni (or at least that's how I interpret "HSC: N/A"). A credit average is very good! In high school a mark of 65 is a crap mark, but at uni it's a way for them to tell you "good on you! You’ve done more than we required/expected of you!". Emphasis on the word "credit". In the thesaurus, you get words like praise, acclaim, acknowledgement, glory, tribute, esteem, honour, prestige, etc! So don't just say "it's only a credit average". The more difficult course like combined masters degrees (like the one I'm doing, which is a BE (Chem)/ME (Biomed) ) require students to maintain credit averages. For your typical bachelor degree, you don't need to maintain an average as high as a credit average. So therefore, 10 hours was sufficient for me to obtain an average as high as a credit average. But that was just for first semester because the subjects that I did pretty much covered what I had studied in the HSC in maths extension 2, physics and chemistry. But this semester I'm doing about 30 hours per week of study because the subjects are brand new (I've never done them before). So the point I was trying to make before was: the amount of study you do varies from person to person (and from one semester to another). Just don't you dare say "it's only a credit average".

Everyone, even the later year students say that the first year is the hardest. It's only when you finally start specialising after the first year when things get better. You become interested in specific fields and your marks increase as a result of your newfound passion. The universities take this into account. When calculating your honours based on your weighted average marks (WAM), they use this formula:
Final WAM = 0.1(First year WAM) + 0.2(Second year WAM) + 0.3(Third year WAM) +0.4(Fourth year WAM). The first year contributes only to 10% of the final WAM (which the uni's use to determine honour levels).

Anonymou5 said:
UAI doesn't necessarily indicate intelligence (although at the top end of the scale it does, you're deluded to suggest otherwise).
Actually, no it doesn't. I came from a below average high school but I slogged it out and I achieved a UAI of 96.60. But I made some new friends at UNSW who all had UAIs above 99. Some of them were stumped in first semester because they didn't learn the course content fully. That was an indication that their UAI was not a testament to their intelligence. It was a testament to the teaching they received at their top selective high schools. Selective high schools aren't as concerned with increasing a student's intelligence as they are with preparing them for the HSC. That's why you would go to a selective high school. They spend 6 years training you for 6 exams in the HSC. They train you to memorise what answers the markers want to see. They train you in the "syllabus outcomes". At uni, you don't have the luxury of being pampered and spoon-fed all the facts. You are the one who has to do all the work.

UAIs are NOT in anyway an indication of one's own intelligence and it is naïve to think they are.

Anonymou5 said:
However if you're lazy in high school and adopt the mentality that I "only" need an 80 or whatever the bare minimum is to get into your course, chances are that you'll think the same way once you get to uni. "Oh, passes get degrees."
As a matter-of-fact, passes do indeed get you degrees. And they don't make you any less appealing to employers. Anything above 65 earns you further honours but passes are acceptable. Once again, to quote my university (UNSW), “a pass demonstrates that the student has achieved an acceptable level of competence in the specified field and he or she is capable of proceeding to the next course or graduation”. One of my lecturers put it in simple terms "A pass is good enough. It means we're happy with the way you performed".

So in closing, I recommend you pull out the pencil you evidently have shoved up your ass.
 
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jemsta

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Just James said:
Excuse me, you're not even at uni (or at least that's how I interpret "HSC: N/A"). A credit average is very good! In high school a mark of 65 is a crap mark, but at uni it's a way for them to tell you "good on you! You’ve done more than we required/expected of you!". Emphasis on the word "credit". In the thesaurus, you get words like praise, acclaim, acknowledgement, glory, tribute, esteem, honour, prestige, etc! So don't just say "it's only a credit average". The more difficult course like combined masters degrees (like the one I'm doing, which is a BE (Chem)/ME (Biomed) ) require students to maintain credit averages. For your typical bachelor degree, you don't need to maintain an average as high as a credit average. So therefore, 10 hours was sufficient for me to obtain an average as high as a credit average. But that was just for first semester because the subjects that I did pretty much covered what I had studied in the HSC in maths extension 2, physics and chemistry. But this semester I'm doing about 30 hours per week of study because the subjects are brand new (I've never done them before). So the point I was trying to make before was: the amount of study you do varies from person to person (and from one semester to another). Just don't you dare say "it's only a credit average".

Everyone, even the later year students say that the first year is the hardest. It's only when you finally start specialising after the first year when things get better. You become interested in specific fields and your marks increase as a result of your newfound passion. The universities take this into account. When calculating your honours based on your weighted average marks (WAM), they use this formula:
Final WAM = 0.1(First year WAM) + 0.2(Second year WAM) + 0.3(Third year WAM) +0.4(Fourth year WAM). The first year contributes only to 10% of the final WAM (which the uni's use to determine honour levels).


Actually, no it doesn't. I came from a below average high school but I slogged it out and I achieved a UAI of 96.60. But I made some new friends at UNSW who all had UAIs above 99. Some of them were stumped in first semester because they didn't learn the course content fully. That was an indication that their UAI was not a testament to their intelligence. It was a testament to the teaching they received at their top selective high schools. Selective high schools aren't as concerned with increasing a student's intelligence as they are with preparing them for the HSC. That's why you would go to a selective high school. They spend 6 years training you for 6 exams in the HSC. They train you to memorise what answers the markers want to see. They train you in the "syllabus outcomes". At uni, you don't have the luxury of being pampered and spoon-fed all the facts. You are the one who has to do all the work.

UAIs are NOT in anyway an indication of one's own intelligence and it is naïve to think they are.


As a matter-of-fact, passes do indeed get you degrees. And they don't make you any less appealing to employers. Anything above 65 earns you further honours but passes are acceptable. Once again, to quote my university (UNSW), “a pass demonstrates that the student has achieved an acceptable level of competence in the specified field and he or she is capable of proceeding to the next course or graduation”. One of my lecturers put it in simple terms "A pass is good enough. It means we're happy with the way you performed".

So in closing, I recommend you pull out the pencil you evidently have shoved up your ass.
couldn't agree with you more
once you're in uni then you can tell us' oh its onyl credit average'
chances are you probably won't make into uni with that sort of attitude
 

STx

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so do you guys have more advice for the FEAS interview and for the application, please?
 

elfm

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Just James said:
Excuse me, you're not even at uni (or at least that's how I interpret "HSC: N/A"). A credit average is very good! In high school a mark of 65 is a crap mark, but at uni it's a way for them to tell you "good on you! You’ve done more than we required/expected of you!". Emphasis on the word "credit". In the thesaurus, you get words like praise, acclaim, acknowledgement, glory, tribute, esteem, honour, prestige, etc! So don't just say "it's only a credit average". The more difficult course like combined masters degrees (like the one I'm doing, which is a BE (Chem)/ME (Biomed) ) require students to maintain credit averages. For your typical bachelor degree, you don't need to maintain an average as high as a credit average. So therefore, 10 hours was sufficient for me to obtain an average as high as a credit average. But that was just for first semester because the subjects that I did pretty much covered what I had studied in the HSC in maths extension 2, physics and chemistry. But this semester I'm doing about 30 hours per week of study because the subjects are brand new (I've never done them before). So the point I was trying to make before was: the amount of study you do varies from person to person (and from one semester to another). Just don't you dare say "it's only a credit average".

Everyone, even the later year students say that the first year is the hardest. It's only when you finally start specialising after the first year when things get better. You become interested in specific fields and your marks increase as a result of your newfound passion. The universities take this into account. When calculating your honours based on your weighted average marks (WAM), they use this formula:
Final WAM = 0.1(First year WAM) + 0.2(Second year WAM) + 0.3(Third year WAM) +0.4(Fourth year WAM). The first year contributes only to 10% of the final WAM (which the uni's use to determine honour levels).


Actually, no it doesn't. I came from a below average high school but I slogged it out and I achieved a UAI of 96.60. But I made some new friends at UNSW who all had UAIs above 99. Some of them were stumped in first semester because they didn't learn the course content fully. That was an indication that their UAI was not a testament to their intelligence. It was a testament to the teaching they received at their top selective high schools. Selective high schools aren't as concerned with increasing a student's intelligence as they are with preparing them for the HSC. That's why you would go to a selective high school. They spend 6 years training you for 6 exams in the HSC. They train you to memorise what answers the markers want to see. They train you in the "syllabus outcomes". At uni, you don't have the luxury of being pampered and spoon-fed all the facts. You are the one who has to do all the work.

UAIs are NOT in anyway an indication of one's own intelligence and it is naïve to think they are.


As a matter-of-fact, passes do indeed get you degrees. And they don't make you any less appealing to employers. Anything above 65 earns you further honours but passes are acceptable. Once again, to quote my university (UNSW), “a pass demonstrates that the student has achieved an acceptable level of competence in the specified field and he or she is capable of proceeding to the next course or graduation”. One of my lecturers put it in simple terms "A pass is good enough. It means we're happy with the way you performed".

So in closing, I recommend you pull out the pencil you evidently have shoved up your ass.
A credit average isn't anything much to brag about really... unless it's a higher credit average (~72+). I'm sitting on a credit average myself and I find that it sits very low compared to a lot of my friends. I dislike your overuse of the phrase "as high as a credit average" - It's not high, but then again, people have different standards set for themselves. Anonymou5 obviously has higher standards/goals set for himself than you do, so you shouldn't just discount his opinion like that.

First year, first semester subjects were the hardest for me. The work itself was pretty basic (in comparison to later courses) but the fact that I just didn't want to do them made me loose interest and do poor in them. Even though you do start doing more interesting courses in year 2, it doesn't mean you'll do any better because obviously, it does get harder and more time consuming from then on.

I went to a good selective high school and I must say, the teachers are generally pretty shit, and you weren't missing out on a lot by going to a shit school (I've also been to a crap school as well so I know first hand).

The UAI is an indicator of the amount of study put in, plus a bit of intelligence IMO. You don't see a lot of dumbasses getting 98.

Some employers do care about marks, and for some degrees, getting just a pass will be looked down upon, especially if you have nothing special to offer them (e.g. personality, unique way of thinking, etc). You shouldn't always listen to lecturers when they say shit like "getting a pass average is OK"... maybe you'll realise this when you're past first year. But whatever rocks your boat...
 

Anonymou5

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I graduated in 2004, before you so don't try pulling the old 'zomg j00 haven't even experienced uni so what would you know' routine with me.

1. If you're not averaging at least a credit (ie. you're only passing) in engineering then why would you even be doing the course? I mean seriously, no matter how many trivial extra curricular activities you've participated in, how great your personality, how great your communication skills are, a pass average will not get you the job. So your point about needing to maintain a credit average is irrelevant.

2. I will offer my opinion of what is a good grade and what is not, you can't tell me that I cannot do so. You are also entitled to your opinion. So yes, I can say "it's only a credit average." Good luck trying to secure an interview with a pass average.

3. As for the point about UAI indicating intelligence. Obviously my previous post did not cover the idiots who didn't bother trying to understand the material that they were learning in high school. I'm sure that you'll find that no matter how much someone studies, they simply will not achieve a perfect UAI if they are not at all intelligent. So you should be careful with your choice of words when you say that the UAI is no way related to intelligence. For the majority (which consists mainly those with <90 UAI) what you say is probably true but for many at the top of the range this is not.

4. Passes get degrees and they also put you behind anyone who has the same extra curricular involvement as you plus a higher average - which would certainly be almost everyone else. Yeah they're "happy" with the way you've performed. Most lecturers wouldn't want a whole bunch of their students to fail - it reflects poorly on them which is why they try to get you over the line even if you don't understand the material.

azn_gangsta81 said:
couldn't agree with you more
once you're in uni then you can tell us' oh its onyl credit average'
chances are you probably won't make into uni with that sort of attitude
As you can now see at the beginning of my post, I did make it into uni, before you in fact. Now according to what you said, I can tell you that "it's only a credit average."

Perhaps what I said came across as a bit of an attack on you. Let me assure you that it was not my intention to put you down about your marks. Everyone's different but I just don't see how people can stand being trounced by everyone else (ie. getting a pass/credit average) unless you've somehow already secured a graduate position.
 
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Just James

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Anonymou5 said:
1. If you're not averaging at least a credit (ie. you're only passing) in engineering then why would you even be doing the course? I mean seriously, no matter how many trivial extra curricular activities you've participated in, how great your personality, how great your communication skills are, a pass average will not get you the job. So your point about needing to maintain a credit average is irrelevant.
I agree it doesn't look good. But if you tell me ALL employers would NEVER hire someone with a pass average then I just couldn't accept that. If that was true then why bother being awarded the degree if it is useless (50<WAM<65)? To be hired, you would have to have honours class 2 at the very least. If passes are as bad as you say then they might as well adjust the pass threshold to 65 as opposed to 50. Why bother having honours and distinguishing between them if a pass average degree is useless in the eyes of ALL employers?
 

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Oh no, of course I wouldn't go as far as saying that no one with a pass average will secure a job. But how many people can average a pass and secure the equivalent of 2+ years relevant work experience (in order to make up for a severely limited understanding the material and low scores) during their 4 to 5 years at uni? There are always exceptions, but don't delude yourself.

If that was true then why bother being awarded the degree if it is useless (50<WAM<65)?
There are people who average in the 90s who don't get the top jobs - in this case it's because they lack skills which are irrelevant to the job. You are awarded a degree because you've completed the course, it doesn't automatically guarantee you a job.
 

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Exactly. It is important that you understand what is taught in your degree, but an employer is more interested in your innovative skills. I.e. can you anticipate a number of unforseen things and act appropriately. They also value leadership skills and initiative. That's probably why UNSW introduced the compulsory 60 days of industrial training; so that students would gain these important skills and attributes.
 

Anonymou5

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Well I don't know the specifics of what employers want but it's fairly obvious that they do want people with a range of non-academic skills. However, I think that you will always be putting yourself at a significant disadvantage if you average a pass. No offence was intended in my original post.
 

Just James

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Anonymou5 said:
Well I don't know the specifics of what employers want but it's fairly obvious that they do want people with a range of non-academic skills. However, I think that you will always be putting yourself at a significant disadvantage if you average a pass. No offence was intended in my original post.
Well then, it's fortunate for me that I'm averaging a credit then isn't it? :)
 

simplistic

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well i hate english and have no plans of studing it at university even if was a low UAI wat could u du with eng other than teach it later
????????????
 

elfm

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you solve real life problems and shit, for companies.
 

drewbrow1

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simplistic said:
well i hate english and have no plans of studing it at university even if was a low UAI wat could u du with eng other than teach it later
????????????


You might want to try learning to read first.

Engineering =/= English
 

Anonymou5

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The point is how are you going to secure relevant work experience if you can't even average a credit? Not that averaging a credit would distinguish you from everyone else. Of course, if you were to take your argument to the extreme case then of course an engineer with 10 years experience would always get the job ahead of a student averaging say 85 in their subjects. But we're talking about student vs student here in which case the difference in relevant work experience between students is minor so it isn't much of a factor in terms of securing vacation employment.

I finished high school in 2004 so I haven't completed my course yet.
 
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Li0n

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Anonymou5, you're still undergrad i gather? You haven't even applied for a job, nor have you finished your degree.
 

Anonymou5

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I take it that you're still an undergrad? You don't need to have jumped off a cliff to know that it is of no benefit to you. If you can't even understand that, then your marks are of no suprise to me ms.employment guru.
 
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angmor

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just a quick question for u guys - what sort of bands did you have to get about 80+ uai? also, anyone here go to a relatively dumbass school - like not in the top 200, but still made it into 80+ uai? coz seeing the threads im really worried that becoz my school is not in the top 200 i cant get a good uai even though my marks are good - they may be setting us dumbass exams.
 

withoutaface

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Musk said:
1. look for past catholic papers and do those (depending on which subject but for physics i know u must do them)
2. band 5's or low band 6's
Mid band 5's and low band 6's got me 98.1, so you're wrong. Use SAM and fiddle around a bit, angmor.
 

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