Would you have an abortion? (5 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

The thing is, a fertalized egg will develop into what your eyes percieve as human.

Yea but it's not a human yet, so I see no problem with getting rid of it. It's like charging murderers with the crimes of all the babies those people POSSIBLY would of had and their children... their childrens children... ad infinitum.

 

[YBK]

Yea but it's not a human yet

What are you talking about!? If it's not human, what is it?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What are you talking about!? If it's not human, what is it?

It's about as much of a human as someone without consciousness is, a non-existant one.

 

[Ranger Stacie]

Yea but it's not a human yet, so I see no problem with getting rid of it. It's like charging murderers with the crimes of all the babies those people POSSIBLY would of had and their children... their childrens children... ad infinitum.

how so? these hypothetical people were not pregnant at the time.A pregnancy is more than just a 'possibility' of a child.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

how so? these hypothetical people were not pregnant at the time.A pregnancy is more than just a 'possibility' of a child.

A pregnancy is more than just a 'possibility' of a child.

What are you talking about? Of course it's just a possibility... untill the actual existance of the childs conscious occurs then there is nothing there but tissue.

 

[Ranger Stacie]

What are you talking about? Of course it's just a possibility... untill the actual existance of the childs conscious occurs then there is nothing there but tissue.

the child is there...not fully developed but it is still a child.

 

[YBK]

how so? these hypothetical people were not pregnant at the time.A pregnancy is more than just a 'possibility' of a child.

Listen to her - she speaks truth



Not-That-Bright, consciousness does not define a human - and I'm not denying that it can be argued that an unborn child does have one. It is their Chromsomes, the DNA that defines them as human. A feotus, no matter how small it is, has 46 chromosomes. It is essentially the same as a fully developed human. Who also, guess guess, has the same amount of chromsomes.

 

[Ranger Stacie]

an unfertilised egg is a possibility of a child

 

[YBK]

What are you talking about? Of course it's just a possibility... untill the actual existance of the childs conscious occurs then there is nothing there but tissue.

When do u think the child's conscious begins to exist?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Not-That-Bright, consciousness does not define a human - and I'm not denying that it can be argued that an unborn child does have one. It is their Chromsomes, the DNA that defines them as human. A feotus, no matter how small it is, has 46 chromosomes. It is essentially the same as a fully developed human. Who also, guess guess, has the same amount of chromsomes.

Well while it may biologically be a human, if it has not displayed a conscious than the human, as we will come to know it, has not yet begun to exist.

 

[YBK]

Well while it may biologically be a human, if it has not displayed a conscious than the human, as we will come to know it, has not yet begun to exist.

No, we don't all know it at all.

Using your logic, a new born child does not have a conscious. Why don't you just kill that too?

 

[glycerine]

lots of stuff

1.) how can you not think that experience (and therefore knowledge on more than one level) *doesn't* make an opinion more valid than one based on say pure science or pure morality? maybe valid isn't the word i'm looking for; i think we're sort of applying the term in different ways. what i mean by valid is that the opinion based on experience as well as science, personal morality etc is one that has had the opportunity to look at the issue in depth.

2.) however (despite how i may have sounded today) that doesn't mean i consider other opinions (specifically those not backed up by personal experience etc) INvalid; everyone has a right to an opinion and i'm willing to listen to them. i hope it's not a big shock that i consider my own opinion to be the most valid/correct/whatever one though... everyone feels the same about their own opinion, at least in areas they know a lot about / feel strongly about

 

[glycerine]

No, we don't all know it at all.

Using your logic, a new born child does not have a conscious. Why don't you just kill that too?

ummmm except for the fact that they can be seen to respond to their environments. hence the crying, holding onto fingers, breastfeeding etc. just cos someone can't speak in words doesn't mean they lack consciousness. wtf would you call mutes then??

 

[YBK]

ummmm except for the fact that they can be seen to respond to their environments. hence the crying, holding onto fingers, breastfeeding etc. just cos someone can't speak in words doesn't mean they lack consciousness. wtf would you call mutes then??

you'd be surprised that a child in the womb does many similar things.

 

[glycerine]

you'd be surprised that a child in the womb does many similar things.

yes but not in the period that legal abortions occur in.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

1.) how can you not think that experience (and therefore knowledge on more than one level) *doesn't* make an opinion more valid than one based on say pure science or pure morality? maybe valid isn't the word i'm looking for; i think we're sort of applying the term in different ways. what i mean by valid is that the opinion based on experience as well as science, personal morality etc is one that has had the opportunity to look at the issue in depth.

Well because it simply doesn't... You can have experience in something yet the other person still might have a better idea from what they know from reading or whatever than what you have from experience.

 

[YBK]

yes but not in the period that legal abortions occur in.

What's the period of legal abortions?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

you'd be surprised that a child in the womb does many similar things.

I was told that an egg is when this person considers a human to come into existance...

 

[glycerine]

Well because it simply doesn't... You can have experience in something yet the other person still might have a better idea from what they know from reading or whatever than what you have from experience.

fair enough

i was saying that with the assumption of wider knowledge. ie personally i've read quite a bit on the subject so to me it's experience + scientific knowledge etc. although admittedly i've never been one for the sciences. meh

but yeah, i get what you mean in which case i do agree with you

 

[glycerine]

What's the period of legal abortions?

i don't remember the exact 'cutoff' but i think it's through the first trimester (ie 12 weeks). generally you can't get one readily after that because of increased risks etc, but they'll do them if the pregnancy is seriously physically endangering the mother. however it's a different, more difficult procedure.

for the record i don't agree with abortion past the first trimester (ie roughly when pain impulses develop in the foetus) mostly because i think you should have the foresight to know if you don't want the child before then. this excludes medical issues.