This thread is to stop people posting in other's threads about friends who have committed suicide. If you would like to leave a message for Lil, please post it here - http://community.boredofstudies.org/569/general-discussion-2006-hsc/124750/suicide/3.html, but if you want to discuss what many people have said about this subject in her thread, then don't reply there, reply here.
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Your thoughts on suicide - Tragedy or Selfish? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rickem
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townie
Premium Member
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
Suicide, is a tragedy of course. people only say selfish because it's easier to deal with that way, whats an easier thought "oh my friend committed suicide, thats so selfish" or "oh my friend committed suicide, how come i coulnt help" and thats the tragedy of suicide, it is somewhat preventable.
there is such a stigma assosciated with depression in this world, it's sad. we should be free to share our deepest and scariest feelings with the world and not be told we're wrong or stupid or idiotic.
Some people believe that tears between men is somehow an affront to humanity, but let me tell u, it is humanity raw and ready without any fancy lights or soundtrack, and when the world can realise this, i think we're on our way to lessening the stigma
Suicide, is a tragedy of course. people only say selfish because it's easier to deal with that way, whats an easier thought "oh my friend committed suicide, thats so selfish" or "oh my friend committed suicide, how come i coulnt help" and thats the tragedy of suicide, it is somewhat preventable.
there is such a stigma assosciated with depression in this world, it's sad. we should be free to share our deepest and scariest feelings with the world and not be told we're wrong or stupid or idiotic.
Some people believe that tears between men is somehow an affront to humanity, but let me tell u, it is humanity raw and ready without any fancy lights or soundtrack, and when the world can realise this, i think we're on our way to lessening the stigma
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
yay thread for discussion..wat i said before ^^
ok couples of things on this.
Yes, depression is a selfish choice due to the way it effects those around you, but can you really call it a selfish choice when the actual choice to commit suicide may not have come about rationally? Depression effects the calculations that occur in your head whenever you make a decision as you may be under the influence of heightened emotions due to a chemical imbalance etc, the actual rationalisation that you undergo to make the choice is completely different to a similar choice that you'd make if you were not depressed. It's like persecutin someone for their actions while there on the piss, except they never chose to drink any alcohol, they were tied to a chair and had it poured down ther throat, they had no choice in the first place whether to get pissed or not.
You may say that she could talk to someone, but some people do not have a strong enough character to bring up the courage to actually do this. Opening up is not an easy thing for many people to do because their afraid. You could say that their selfish for not helping themselves and thus that leading to suicide and hurting those around her but if you look at this argument it's not really justified.
What other people have said about the pressures of the HSC coming from your environment is true, it is not the board of studies that is at fault so don't blame them, its society and its expectations of today's youth thats at fault. This, sadly, we can really do nothing about. Even if your direct environment(parents, friends etc) is controlled, the external environment of societies standards will still impact on you.
You guys have gotta stop all the negative bullshit about individuals being selfish because you really can't understand at all EXACTLY WHY they committed suicide.
yay thread for discussion..wat i said before ^^
ok couples of things on this.
Yes, depression is a selfish choice due to the way it effects those around you, but can you really call it a selfish choice when the actual choice to commit suicide may not have come about rationally? Depression effects the calculations that occur in your head whenever you make a decision as you may be under the influence of heightened emotions due to a chemical imbalance etc, the actual rationalisation that you undergo to make the choice is completely different to a similar choice that you'd make if you were not depressed. It's like persecutin someone for their actions while there on the piss, except they never chose to drink any alcohol, they were tied to a chair and had it poured down ther throat, they had no choice in the first place whether to get pissed or not.
You may say that she could talk to someone, but some people do not have a strong enough character to bring up the courage to actually do this. Opening up is not an easy thing for many people to do because their afraid. You could say that their selfish for not helping themselves and thus that leading to suicide and hurting those around her but if you look at this argument it's not really justified.
What other people have said about the pressures of the HSC coming from your environment is true, it is not the board of studies that is at fault so don't blame them, its society and its expectations of today's youth thats at fault. This, sadly, we can really do nothing about. Even if your direct environment(parents, friends etc) is controlled, the external environment of societies standards will still impact on you.
You guys have gotta stop all the negative bullshit about individuals being selfish because you really can't understand at all EXACTLY WHY they committed suicide.
Serius
Beyond Godlike
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
I think suicide is tragic, but the motivations behind it are usually selfish.
I think of it this way, anyone who kills themselves is not in their right mind so doesnt know they are making a mistake, i go by the assumption that if they were a happy healthy individual they would not end their life, therefore if they think suicide is a good idea they need some serious help.
Their motivations behind suicide are often quite selfish, I am not sure if we should just excuse this behaviour as another symptom of depression or assume the person was not in their right mind AND selfish... like i have been depressed before, but ive never really seriously contemplated suicide because being selfish just isnt really in my nature.
At the end of the day its a tragedy, but you cant help but feel that if the victim was a little less self absorbed then maybe they would have sought some help instead of doing that to their family.
I think suicide is tragic, but the motivations behind it are usually selfish.
I think of it this way, anyone who kills themselves is not in their right mind so doesnt know they are making a mistake, i go by the assumption that if they were a happy healthy individual they would not end their life, therefore if they think suicide is a good idea they need some serious help.
Their motivations behind suicide are often quite selfish, I am not sure if we should just excuse this behaviour as another symptom of depression or assume the person was not in their right mind AND selfish... like i have been depressed before, but ive never really seriously contemplated suicide because being selfish just isnt really in my nature.
At the end of the day its a tragedy, but you cant help but feel that if the victim was a little less self absorbed then maybe they would have sought some help instead of doing that to their family.
angelduck
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Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
yeah, ive noticed that when Schro has an opinion, its very well expressed - nice smart post. I dont think i could put it better
yeah, ive noticed that when Schro has an opinion, its very well expressed - nice smart post. I dont think i could put it better
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
What I can't understand is why people cannot put it in the news paper that this person commited suicide, inorder to try and prevent others?
e.g.
This Person, Tragically took their own life on this date.
What I can't understand is why people cannot put it in the news paper that this person commited suicide, inorder to try and prevent others?
e.g.
This Person, Tragically took their own life on this date.
Serius
Beyond Godlike
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
because it encourages copycat suicides, its got something to do with a journalists code of ethics.
because it encourages copycat suicides, its got something to do with a journalists code of ethics.
cholly
Somebody's Left Shoe
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
They don't say 'suicide', but it's blatanly obvious that that was the cause. They even list a Mental Health Hotline number.
I have many friends who were affected by this.
R.I.P.
That's what I thought, until i saw the front page of today's Daily Telegraph.Serius said:
They don't say 'suicide', but it's blatanly obvious that that was the cause. They even list a Mental Health Hotline number.
I have many friends who were affected by this.
R.I.P.
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
^hey you also made some great points.
to me, people will not be ever close to understanding the concept of being depressed --> suicide until they have experienced it themselves. trust me, if you have been through it [depression], you would not be saying its selfish at all. and if you disagree with me, i could confidently guess that you yourself have never been directly affected with diagnosed depression before. prove me otherwise and i'll take that back.
^hey you also made some great points.
to me, people will not be ever close to understanding the concept of being depressed --> suicide until they have experienced it themselves. trust me, if you have been through it [depression], you would not be saying its selfish at all. and if you disagree with me, i could confidently guess that you yourself have never been directly affected with diagnosed depression before. prove me otherwise and i'll take that back.
daledugahole
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I think suicide is a great tragedy. I think one of the worst things is the suffering someone who is considering suicide or attempting suicide must be going through. No one should ever feel that bad about things that they would want to take their own life. I think that's the great tragedy that this person was suffering so much, no one should have to go through that and I can't even contemplate what frame of mind you would have to be in to want to kill yourself.
Re: Your thoughts on suicide... Tragedy or Selfish?
It's self interest (not selfish), insofar as the person would most likely be unable to see past their own suffering, otherwise the motivation for committing suicide would probably not be so strong. I think it is heartless to judge anyone who is suffering so much as 'selfish'.
I remember a time about a year ago when I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, and seriously contemplating suicide. Coincidentally it was when I was doing the HSC and needing very high marks, though there was much more to it than this. So many things just wore me down to the point where death seemed like the only possible relief, so peaceful... God only knows how I survived.
Anyway, it seemed pointless at the time to seek help. I didn't believe anyone would understand, or worse, they would just laugh. In any case, the depth of it is hard to put into words, and the last thing I wanted to do was talk about it, though in another way, I was desperate to release the pressure boiling up inside my mind. Argh... so confusing.
Ah, but I digress. There have been some good posts here, and I'm glad that most people have shown sympathy.
It's self interest (not selfish), insofar as the person would most likely be unable to see past their own suffering, otherwise the motivation for committing suicide would probably not be so strong. I think it is heartless to judge anyone who is suffering so much as 'selfish'.
I remember a time about a year ago when I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, and seriously contemplating suicide. Coincidentally it was when I was doing the HSC and needing very high marks, though there was much more to it than this. So many things just wore me down to the point where death seemed like the only possible relief, so peaceful... God only knows how I survived.
Anyway, it seemed pointless at the time to seek help. I didn't believe anyone would understand, or worse, they would just laugh. In any case, the depth of it is hard to put into words, and the last thing I wanted to do was talk about it, though in another way, I was desperate to release the pressure boiling up inside my mind. Argh... so confusing.
Ah, but I digress. There have been some good posts here, and I'm glad that most people have shown sympathy.
This cannot be stressed enough. The emphasis placed on image nowadays, and particularly 'only that which is pleasant', is sickening. It only makes it worse for anyone with deep and dark emotions, as few people would even acknowledge that they exist, let alone discuss them.townie said:
It is possible to make a rational and well thought-out decision to commit suicide, though the final impetus to act may come during a very emotional moment. e.g. If life is too painful to bear, and there is no conceivable way of escaping the pain, then death brings the desired relief. As you can see, the prerequisite for this line of thought is intolerable pain/suffering, which can happen to healthy people who are thinking straight. It's just that some people might be able to see an alternative to death, whereas others can't.Serius said:
I've read that with a lot of suicides they get washed over by a wave of suicidal thoughts and if something like a phone rings as they are about to kill themselves and they answer it often the wave has passed. Churchill used to say that he'd never stand on the edge of a train platform because he was afraid a wave would wash over him and he'd jump in front.
barelyexisting
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Because I Cant Post In Lils Thread Coz Its Closed I Just Had To Say To All The F-wits Who Did Post In There:
-you Never Knew Her
-you Never Will Have The Chance To Know Her
-so Dont Assume Anything About Her
-it Wasnt The Hsc
-she Wasnt Like That
-she Was Beautiful,funny,and Kind
-the Media Is Absolute Bs
-why The F Did That Person Put Her My Space Up?
Have Respect For Her Friends And Family U Absolute F-wits.
I Love U Lil
U Will Never Ever Be Forgotten
-you Never Knew Her
-you Never Will Have The Chance To Know Her
-so Dont Assume Anything About Her
-it Wasnt The Hsc
-she Wasnt Like That
-she Was Beautiful,funny,and Kind
-the Media Is Absolute Bs
-why The F Did That Person Put Her My Space Up?
Have Respect For Her Friends And Family U Absolute F-wits.
I Love U Lil
U Will Never Ever Be Forgotten
Captain Gh3y
Rhinorhondothackasaurus
She obviously didn't think so.barelyexisting said:
ElendilPeredhil
Member
Yes. It's very sad. I think suicide is a tragedy. As for selfish, well it can be, it depends on who you are. Sad to say, there are people out there who think there is no-one they can talk to. I was lucky, the year I was down enough to contemplate suicide was also the year I discovered the best friend I've ever had. They helped me through it, with lots of long conversations, emails and just being there, even though they didn't know just how bad it got for me.Captain Gh3y said:
Anyway yes I think that whole wave idea is possible...if you are feeling suicidal and you are given the opportunity you may take it, whereas if you were somewhere else you would simply put up with it.
Poor Lil. Her poor friends and family. It's a tragedy.
Katie123
Clinical is OVER
firstly we dont know if its suicide
if it was i feel for lily...there was so much going on in her head that noone knew about ..such a build up of pain that noone but those at the same stage would know. Ifeel for all those who knew her..they didnt /couldnt see what was happening and now they will probably live with the (although irrational) thought that they could have done something to help her.
if it was i feel for lily...there was so much going on in her head that noone knew about ..such a build up of pain that noone but those at the same stage would know. Ifeel for all those who knew her..they didnt /couldnt see what was happening and now they will probably live with the (although irrational) thought that they could have done something to help her.
Riddles
4th Gen. Ford Supporter
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i believe that suicide is a cowards way out. just my opinion, but i kno many ppl say da same as me
ElendilPeredhil
Member
"i believe that suicide is a cowards way out. just my opinion, but i kno many ppl say da same as me"
Thanks for that. "OMG da world is flat! evry1 no's dats true!"
And Katie, I thought we did know its suicide. Sure, the Daily Telegraph won't say it because it encourages copycat suicides (or something like that) but I learned about it from this site. One of her friends, complete with link to her myspace which I must admit I looked at before I thought about whether her family/friends wants everyone on the net to know about it. So now I feel bad.
Thanks for that. "OMG da world is flat! evry1 no's dats true!"
And Katie, I thought we did know its suicide. Sure, the Daily Telegraph won't say it because it encourages copycat suicides (or something like that) but I learned about it from this site. One of her friends, complete with link to her myspace which I must admit I looked at before I thought about whether her family/friends wants everyone on the net to know about it. So now I feel bad.
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