Am I better to drop a subject, or do horribly for it in the HSC? (2 Viewers)

[joshhunt]

I have been doing really bad in my English Extension past papers (for half yearlies and such) and I am not very confident that I will do that well for in English Extension. I think I am ranked 7th or 8th out of 9 for our class. I have been getting just over 50% in all my non-exam assessment tasks. English Ext is my 11th unit

Now, am I better off to drop English Ext. before I do the HSC paper for it, or should I just stick it out, do the exam and get a horrible mark for it? Could this mark bring my whole ATAR down?

 

[boxhunter91]

They will only take your Top 10 units so even if you do crap in it, it will not effect your mark. best to stick it out and do the test. You might surprise yourself.

 

[absorber]

Lol, EE1 is my 12th unit and I've so far done ZERO study for it, despite being ranked second. I reckon our class will do shit, so I'm just kinda ignoring it, it just won't count in ATAR. If you're confident it's your worst unit and it's your 11th unit don't bother focusing on it is my advice

 

[helper]

During the scaling process they include all subjects that you do. That means if you don't study for one and flunk it, then in the scaling it will pull down the others,

After the scaling is done, then they only add your best 10 units.

 

[ehtefaz.hedayet]

they will only take your top 10 units so even if you do crap in it, it will not effect your mark. Best to stick it out and do the test. You might surprise yourself.

+1

 

[raniaaa]

but if he performs poorly in the hsc exam then won't that bring down the class average and therefore impact his classmates? my point: study for it, don't do so at the expense of your other subjects but don't just waltz into the exam knowing jack all.

 

[ajdlinux]

During the scaling process they include all subjects that you do. That means if you don't study for one and flunk it, then in the scaling it will pull down the others,

After the scaling is done, then they only add your best 10 units.

I'd like an official source for that, it's contrary to everything I've seen from UAC and from anyone else. My understanding is that they scale each course separately.

 

[helper]

A mathematician, whi is close to the actual process, went through how it works with us this year, and made the comment that until they calculate the actual ATAR for an individual, they include all marks.

From UAC

Once the raw marks have been scaled, aggregates are calculated for ATAR-eligible students.

This is saying all marks are used in the scaling process. So your result in the subject you don't work in effects the subjects you do.

 

[ajdlinux]

My understanding is that they do calculate scaled scores for every course, but the aggregate is only of the best 10 units. And individual course scaling can only be done in comparison to other results in that course and in that course alone. So the work in your bad subject does get scaled, but isn't included in the aggregate.

If what you're saying is true, I'd like to see it from a better and more official source than some mathematician who you say is close to the process. (As evidenced by a particular NSW Ombudsman's report, even senior officials who are in charge of the process don't understand it...)

 

[youngminii]

My understanding is that they do calculate scaled scores for every course, but the aggregate is only of the best 10 units. And individual course scaling can only be done in comparison to other results in that course and in that course alone. So the work in your bad subject does get scaled, but isn't included in the aggregate.

This is true.
But you're completely misunderstanding helper.
Helper is saying: If you do shit in one subject, even if it's your 12th unit it will negatively affect the rest of your school in the process of moderation, not scaling.

 

[absorber]

I really hope this isn't the case, but the matrix atar calculator takes you down if you get low marks in one subj even if it's 12 units total...

 

[ajdlinux]

This is true.
But you're completely misunderstanding helper.
Helper is saying: If you do shit in one subject, even if it's your 12th unit it will negatively affect the rest of your school in the process of moderation, not scaling.

Um, that may be what helper means, but that's not what he's saying. helper mentions the terms scaling, best 10 units, and UAC numerous times...

 

[helper]

Yes and to calculate the scaled score for every course they use all the marks, not just the ones used in the aggregate because until they are scaled, they don't know which marks will be in your aggregate. Thus all your marks are effecting your other marks.

The way it was explained was like this:

Student does

A 80
B 75
C 45
D 79
E 81
F 75

Scaled equivalent:
A =(75 + 45 + 79 +81 +75)/5=71
B=(80 + 45 + 79 +81 +75)/5=72
C=(80+75 + 79 +81 +75)/5=78
D=(80+75 + 45 +81 +75)/5=71.2
E=(80 +75 + 45 + 79 +75)/5=70.8
F=(80 +75 + 45 + 79 +81)/5=72

So in calculating the averaging and scaling, you not working in a subject pulls its mean up and the other means down. Thus effecting your other subjects. In this case, it would mean that C has ended up being scaled up higher than the others. However, since there are so many students doing each subject, the effect is less but it still occurs.

Since you are doing the subject and it is included in the scaling process, then it will effect your other subjects.

I am not talking about moderation. I am talking about scaling.

This person was involved in the mathematical review of UAI to ATAR, so I think they may know what they are talking about.

 

[ajdlinux]

Hmm, so are you talking about how they determine the non-linear transformation used to determine scaled marks across the entire candidature? In that case, I understand what you're saying, that matches with the ATAR Technical Report and its use of the 'measure of academic achievement'.

What that means though is that unless your course only has 10 people doing it, your impact on the scaled means and scaled standard deviations is only tiny, so it's not really relevant here.

 

[helper]

As I said it is only a small effect but if it occurs with too many students in a subject, then it does have an effect. Apparently the reason IPT has such a bad scaling, is that appears that people who do it focus on it a lot more than other subjects, producing good results within that subject but are dragged down by the lack of work in the other subjects.

It does come into play here becuase if you are in the middle of the pack for UAI, every small bit counts.

 

[joshhunt]

Wow… Errr… ok.

I think I will just stick with it and see how I go. If I find some spare time here and there I might put a bit of study into it, but we will just see…

I know it sounds callous, but I don't really care about dragging my classmates marks down (I'm not really a big fan of my Plath-loving, stuck up classmates).

 

[ajdlinux]

Wow… Errr… ok.

I think I will just stick with it and see how I go. If I find some spare time here and there I might put a bit of study into it, but we will just see…

I know it sounds callous, but I don't really care about dragging my classmates marks down (I'm not really a big fan of my Plath-loving, stuck up classmates).

Well, in theory, the system should compensate fairly for any one person doing badly, and the effects of your one bad course in the whole ATAR scaling equation are really minor, so I'd say if it's not going to be one of your best 10 units it won't really affect anything, and you should probably just see how you go.

 

[untouchablecuz]

i do SOR 1 unit and i dont plan to study for the exam

worst case scenario, if i do very badly like 35/50 aligned mark and their are 3 people in the class (one might get an e4 or high e3 and the other wont do very well), how badly can it affect my atar

 

[untouchablecuz]

bump

 

[helper]

To be honest, it will only have a small effect, except if everyone else decides to do the same thing.