Alpha males: does the concept apply to modern homo-sapiens (2 Viewers)

[jennyfromdabloc]

The logic of self proclaimed pickup artists ect is basically that since in some species there are alpha males who mate with all the females in the pack to the almost complete exclusion of other males, this must therefore apply to humans.

Therefore, if you don't buy our stuff and learn the secrets of attraction (or whatever) you won't be the alpha male and you will never have any sex.

Tbh I think its nonsense. We no longer live in tribes, we live in complex societies with millions of people. We no longer live in a survival situation, and we no longer physically fight with each other for dominance. They are also unable to provide any statistics that demonstrate that a small minority of men have sex with most women, while the majority almost never have sex.

 

[cosmo kramer]

shut up

alpha male among human beings refers to a man who has a powerful personality/is powerful, generally respected by other men, is extremely self confident and deferred to by other men and tends to draw women to him, high testosterone and driven to high levels of achievement and success

whatever connotations that term has when describing other species has no relevance to what it generally means in the lexicon when describing human beings

 

[Graney]

They are also unable to provide any statistics that demonstrate that a small minority of men have sex with most women, while the majority almost never have sex.

The billion dollar industry speaks for itself.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah I agree that the alpha male is wrong, and it isn't even true for plenty of species, but I'd say that some men are definitely more succesful than others in terms of casual sex, and that it isn't just due to physical attractiveness. On the other hand, while this says nothing about their persona as a decent guy with whom women will want to father children.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

shut up

alpha male among human beings refers to a man who has a powerful personality/is powerful, generally respected by other men, is extremely self confident and deferred to by other men and tends to draw women to him, high testosterone and driven to high levels of achievement and success

whatever connotations that term has when describing other species has no relevance to what it generally means in the lexicon when describing human beings

Yeah, umm, a lot of words have more than one meaning. I have read articles and advertisements where it is used in exactly the sense I mentioned.

 

[cosmo kramer]

ive never heard that dont know what planet you live on sorry

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

The billion dollar industry speaks for itself.

I'd argue that its because most men feel like they're not getting enough sex most of the time.

Given the choice (and sufficient free time) most men would probably opt to have sex several times a day.

 

[Rothbard]

I'd posit the same evolutionary fitness indicators still apply to the modern human, even if it is subconsciously.

The concept of beauty probably has not changed over the past 10k years.

 

[cosmo kramer]

uh of course they do

how many women prefer short men over tall men

how many women prefer ugly men over attractive men

how many women prefer poor men over rich men

how many women prefer weak losers over strong men

how many women prefer retarded men over smart men

how many women prefer mentally subnormal men over mentally normal men

how many women prefer unsuccessful men over successful men

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

I'd posit the same evolutionary fitness indicators still apply to the modern human, even if it is subconsciously.

Sure, but that doesn't prove the concept of the alpha male applies.

The concept of beauty probably has not changed over the past 10k years.

What are you talking about, it has changed noticeably within the last few hundred years. In the past obesity and pale skin were considered signs of success and prosperity because it meant you didn't have to work. Today they are considered unattractive and indicators of laziness.

It even varies across cultures today, with some cultures preferring different size and shaped women, hair colors and facial features.

 

[bio_nut]

So how did stick skinny models come to be portrayed as the ideal?

In evolutionary terms, wide hips, a bit plumper and such is would be far more favoured.

And porn stars are often just skinny women with humongous breasts, just this one trait does not lend them much of a reproductive advantage, so that attraction is strange in the absence of hips to aid childbirth..

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

how many women prefer unsuccessful men over successful men

Define success...

 

[Rothbard]

What are you talking about, it has changed noticeably within the last few hundred years. In the past obesity and pale skin were considered signs of success and prosperity because it meant you didn't have to work. Today they are considered unattractive and indicators of laziness.

It even varies across cultures today, with some cultures preferring different size and shaped women, hair colors and facial features.

fuck I fucked that up because I wasn't paying attention. I meant to say it has changed and I was going to point out the difference in cultures.

You're absolutely right. The indicators of fitness have shifted but the overall aim of them is towards fit, healthy, many children.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Also there are huge variations in human sexuality, with a fetish existing for just about everything.

Human beings are a very complex and adaptable species that occupy extremely diverse habitats. Nolan is right about the overall evolutionary goals, but the traits that will best further those goals are almost infinitely varied based on the circumstances that human beings find themselves in.

An extremely strong, tall, muscular man who is highly skilled at hunting might be an "alpha male" in the Congo, whereas he may be the exact opposite in New York City (and vice versa for say a pudgy, unfit, but very wealthy NYC investment banker).

 

[Graney]

It's not really about sex. If their customers just wanted to cum several times a day, they'd rub one out, it feels the same basically. The 'master PUA' charge thousands of dollars for a few hours consultation, their customers could pay for a bunch of assured roots, but there'd be no status in that.

It's entirely about power. It's an industry for grooming men who feel inadequate so they can appear more powerful than their mates.
There are a few different ways individuals evaluate power by different qualities, but it's effectiveness in attraction is undeniable.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

It's not really about sex. If their customers just wanted to cum several times a day, they'd rub one out, it feels the same basically.

No I'm pretty sure it is about sex. Maybe you're awesome at masturbating (or terrible at sex), because it does not feel the same. If it did feel the same, there would be no drive to have sex and the species would struggle to survive.

The PUA charge thousands of dollars for a few hours, their customers could pay for a bunch of assured roots, but there'd be no status in that.

Hookers are extremely expensive. Most men could not even afford one "assured root" a week, which is certainly not enough to satisfy the average male sex drive.

It's entirely about power. It's an industry for grooming men who feel inadequate so they can appear more powerful than their mates.
There are a few different ways individuals evaluate power by different qualities, but it's effectiveness in attraction is undeniable.

I don't completely disagree without you, but I think its a gross oversimplification. There's lots of reasons people do things, to say "it's entirely about power" is just stupid.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Nah it's about bragging rights, they are interested because they want to bang HB10s all the time or whatever, so the can brag about it. If it was just about sex, there are plenty of normal women who aren't getting enough (see: Big Thread) that don't require thousand dollar consultations to seduce. It's not like attractive women are necessarily better at sex either.

Edit: In fact even more obvious that it's about bragging rights, the whole PUA game is about seducing lots of women, yeah sure, the chase is fun, no doubt. but it doesn't leave you with any lasting satisfaction. If it were just about sex then surely far more money would be spent on seducing just one woman, and continuing a relationship with her. That is surely a more reliable way of getting laid.

 

[amirite]

Im alpha

 

[dan2452]

Well, what the alpha male concept refers to now is someone who is emotionally stable (and controls themself), practices excellence in certain areas (sport, academics, etc.), as well as being an overall strong personality (not 'weak', or totally 'insecure') - which refers to having a good sense of humor, playfulness, and confidence.

Also, women are naturally attracted to leaders, and the people who solve conflicts and inspire other people with thier ideas...

However what is just as important is empathy and love, but that is generally a HUMAN part of the mating game, but these others still apply to someone being an overall attractive prospect.

Rather abstracted but this is a way to tie in the concept with the world we live in.

 

[HalcyonSky]

Sure, but that doesn't prove the concept of the alpha male applies.



What are you talking about, it has changed noticeably within the last few hundred years. In the past obesity and pale skin were considered signs of success and prosperity because it meant you didn't have to work. Today they are considered unattractive and indicators of laziness.

It even varies across cultures today, with some cultures preferring different size and shaped women, hair colors and facial features.

Yes, the physical exteriors associated with basic attractive (read: alpha) traits like power change with time and context, but these underlying traits which women are inherently attracted to remain the same.. Aren't you proving the validity of the concept of a modern day alpha male with this?