Should English be compulsory?? (3 Viewers)

[funnytomato]

I think that while English SHOULD be compulsory, it shouldn't be the only thing that's compulsory. I think a good system would be one where both English AND Maths were compulsory.

In essence, these two subjects stand at the core of many other subjects. Sciences are strongly based on a blend of these two subjects, and by only comparing sciences to one subject, you're essentially giving students who are superior with their written skills an advantage (as opposed to mathematical skill) It's arguable that maths is almost as necessary, if not moreso, in day to day life as english. This way, both creative and lateral thinking can be compared across the board.

It's unfair to suggest that mathematics or any heavy calculation based course should be scaled based on performance in english. The board should refine their algorithms and consider both maths and english when calculating atars.
One of the biggest problems with using english as a benchmark is that it's become a largely mechanical process. I wouldn't be surprised if at least half the state memorised their essays, and it's probably with good reason. Unless the english syllabus is refined, then it can reward those who do little work quite easily, imo.

that's a fair point, IF the polititians knew how to do maths so that they would make it compulsory

 

[Shadowdude]

It's unfair to suggest that mathematics or any heavy calculation based course should be scaled based on performance in english.

Are you suggesting that the current scalings of subjects are unfair? Not the way they are calculated - but as scaling doesn't change all that much year to year - rather, the degree to which they are scaled.

 

[Existential]

Yes. I think it needs a huge restructuring though, and better fundementals taught in lower years.

+ 1

 

[funnytomato]

+ 1

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1...

some one tell me how to get ONE "+1" from BOS instead of ONE HUNDRED "+1"s from bos, and I'll rep him/her for the rest of my life(unless bos server dies, or an apocalypse happens)

 

[Omnipotence]

Yes, it should be compulsory.

 

[kfnmpah]

Quit complaining, just study for your english exam and get it over and done with.
My theories are
a) It should be compulsory but not be a compulsory 2 units towards your UAI
OR
b) either 2u maths OR adv. english should be compulsory depending on your other subjects/whatever you want to choose. General maths and standard english would still be available, if you want to choose them, but you have to do a higher level of either maths or english. If you're doing chem, phys etc, you would pick maths if you're doing mod/anc history etc, you would do English. Or you can choose both or you can do phys and chem and do just english, whatever, but I reckon people would like it a lot more if they could choose between the two.

In short, make me prime minister.
The end.

 

[jm2506]

I definitely think english should NOT be compulsory. Is french compulsory or indonesian? No.
English is just a language and as long as we can read and write perfect sentences why bother analysing novels and poems. I am a science student and i absolutely detest english. Apart from reading and writing, english is only used as a source of ENTERTAINMENT! And i dont need poems or novels for my science career and it pisses me off.

 

[Aerath]

I definitely think english should NOT be compulsory. Is french compulsory or indonesian? No.

Well, last time I checked, Australia's de facto national language is English, not French or Indonesian. But let me get back to you on that.

In any case, dis donc, vous donnez un argument stupide.

English is just a language and as long as we can read and write perfect sentences why bother analysing novels and poems. I am a science student and i absolutely detest english. Apart from reading and writing, english is only used as a source of ENTERTAINMENT! And i dont need poems or novels for my science career and it pisses me off.

That's the problem - people can't write perfect sentences.

 

[iRuler]

I definitely think english should NOT be compulsory. Is french compulsory or indonesian? No.

English is becoming compulsory in so many countries, it's an important language to know for communication around the world. Countries such as India and China are putting more focus on english than their own native language so upcoming generations don't have trouble or issues with communicating in such a Globalised world.

English is just a language and as long as we can read and write perfect sentences why bother analysing novels and poems. I am a science student and i absolutely detest english. Apart from reading and writing, english is only used as a source of ENTERTAINMENT! And i dont need poems or novels for my science career and it pisses me off.

There's a difference between writing perfect sentences and sophisticated/interesting/descriptive sentences.

Perfect Sentence: He jumped up to catch the ball.

The sentence makes sense, but obviously it's a pretty lame sentence, no description, but since it makes sense it's a perfect sentence.

Argument is void ab initio.

 

[Shadowdude]

I definitely think english should NOT be compulsory. Is french compulsory or indonesian? No.
English is just a language and as long as we can read and write perfect sentences why bother analysing novels and poems. I am a science student and i absolutely detest english. Apart from reading and writing, english is only used as a source of ENTERTAINMENT! And i dont need poems or novels for my science career and it pisses me off.

Err... yeah, the thing is - if you're going to be a scientist - the great irony is that you have to start publishing stuff and that needs English skills. Fact is, scientific journals have very strict requirements for publication - and if yours has a spelling mistake or if it doesn't have correct referencing or whatever, it's not going to be published. It's very simple. And combine that with the adage, "Publish or perish".

Also, your post - quite ironically - showed your lack of ability to write perfect sentences. I found that lol-worthy.

Quit complaining, just study for your english exam and get it over and done with.
My theories are
a) It should be compulsory but not be a compulsory 2 units towards your UAI
OR
b) either 2u maths OR adv. english should be compulsory depending on your other subjects/whatever you want to choose. General maths and standard english would still be available, if you want to choose them, but you have to do a higher level of either maths or english. If you're doing chem, phys etc, you would pick maths if you're doing mod/anc history etc, you would do English. Or you can choose both or you can do phys and chem and do just english, whatever, but I reckon people would like it a lot more if they could choose between the two.

In short, make me prime minister.
The end.

Umm, yeah - let's make it compulsory and make it not count towards our ATAR? But English is the basis of scaling - so your argument fails there.

And for the second option, 2 unit maths? Do you know why they have a General Maths course? It's for people who will not go on to university and need basic skills for maths in life. That's why it's very practical and example based - and not theoretical like 2u maths with its calculus and maxima/minima.

Also, Advanced English is pretty much the same as Standard just with different texts and a different emphasis in portions.

Moreover, did I read that correctly? " General maths and standard english would still be available, if you want to choose them, but you have to do a higher level of either maths or english. " So under your system, if I picked General Maths - I'd also have to do Mathematics as well? Do I even need to begin to point out how silly that idea is...?

 

[kfnmpah]

Err... yeah, the thing is - if you're going to be a scientist - the great irony is that you have to start publishing stuff and that needs English skills. Fact is, scientific journals have very strict requirements for publication - and if yours has a spelling mistake or if it doesn't have correct referencing or whatever, it's not going to be published. It's very simple. And combine that with the adage, "Publish or perish".

Also, your post - quite ironically - showed your lack of ability to write perfect sentences. I found that lol-worthy.



Umm, yeah - let's make it compulsory and make it not count towards our ATAR? But English is the basis of scaling - so your argument fails there.

And for the second option, 2 unit maths? Do you know why they have a General Maths course? It's for people who will not go on to university and need basic skills for maths in life. That's why it's very practical and example based - and not theoretical like 2u maths with its calculus and maxima/minima.

Also, Advanced English is pretty much the same as Standard just with different texts and a different emphasis in portions.

Moreover, did I read that correctly? " General maths and standard english would still be available, if you want to choose them, but you have to do a higher level of either maths or english. " So under your system, if I picked General Maths - I'd also have to do Mathematics as well? Do I even need to begin to point out how silly that idea is...?

Nah, man. I mean that you have to do either 2u maths OR adv english but if you want to do adv english and some sort of maths, but not hard maths, general is there if you want to choose it, but everyone has to do either 2u maths or adv english. Read properly before you go accosting people of having silly ideas.
Also, school isn't meant to be a breeze. What's wrong with raising your expectations of students?
I wish I had the link to a study conducted at the univeristy of Newcastle by some education academics- they did a longitudinal study of something like 30 schools over a period of 4 years. They found that every single students' performance was increased by teachers raising their expectations and demands of students.
This includes low SES students, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders and students from non-english speaking backgrounds.

 

[winonaaa]

Well, apparently English is the subject they base the scaling on or what-not. Prior to this year, I would've fervently shaken my head and screamed 'NO'. But after my half-yearly results (quite pleased), I don't think it's that bad. You've just got to know what the markers want. Compulsory or not, I would still do it.

 

[Shadowdude]

Nah, man. I mean that you have to do either 2u maths OR adv english but if you want to do adv english and some sort of maths, but not hard maths, general is there if you want to choose it, but everyone has to do either 2u maths or adv english. Read properly before you go accosting people of having silly ideas.
Also, school isn't meant to be a breeze. What's wrong with raising your expectations of students?
I wish I had the link to a study conducted at the univeristy of Newcastle by some education academics- they did a longitudinal study of something like 30 schools over a period of 4 years. They found that every single students' performance was increased by teachers raising their expectations and demands of students.
This includes low SES students, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders and students from non-english speaking backgrounds.

Well, there are people I know that are not very good at English or Maths. This system would disadvantage them by having to pick a 'harder' subject that is compulsory.

And yes, it's called the Pygmalion effect. But while it may increase their results - do we really want to put people through that? Do the ends justify the means? If I had to do Visual Arts for my HSC because it was compulsory - I would've been majorly pissed off and I would not care if my marks just happened to be 'better' at the end of it all because of the high expectations.

 

[nb2594]

i think it should but i don't as well in it

p.s. how do u start ur own threadd

 

[iRuler]

go to the forum, top left click "+ Post New Thread"

 

[Omnipotence]

i think it should but i don't as well in it

p.s. how do u start ur own threadd

Case in point - this is why English should be compulsory.

/thread

 

[kfnmpah]

Well, there are people I know that are not very good at English or Maths. This system would disadvantage them by having to pick a 'harder' subject that is compulsory.

And yes, it's called the Pygmalion effect. But while it may increase their results - do we really want to put people through that? Do the ends justify the means? If I had to do Visual Arts for my HSC because it was compulsory - I would've been majorly pissed off and I would not care if my marks just happened to be 'better' at the end of it all because of the high expectations.

That's a bit dramatic. Plus, they're already making people do English when a lot of people really don't want to- I came 9th last in advanced english, but was top 3 in all my other classes. I calculated my UAI using religion as my other 2 units instead of english and it went up by like 7 or something. How is that fair?
But, hey, each to their own. I think maths is important (and also the best) and I think English is important (but also the worst). The HSC isn't gonna change any time soon, so meh. The thread asked for our opinion, so I gave mine. I just think it'd be neato if students atleast had the option of choosing between the two, maths or english, because they might be able to pick one they prefer/compliments their other subjects more. Who cares about having to do 2u or advanced, but a choice between the 2 wouldn't be bad.

ANYWAY c'est tout. I have a maths exam and 5.5 weeks uni break to prepare myself for.

 

[Aerath]

That's a bit dramatic. Plus, they're already making people do English when a lot of people really don't want to- I came 9th last in advanced english, but was top 3 in all my other classes. I calculated my UAI using religion as my other 2 units instead of english and it went up by like 7 or something. How is that fair?

So essentially you're saying: "I sucked at English, hence it shouldn't be compulsory".

 

[iRuler]

Guys, as much as everyone hates English it's still important in life, so just shut it and keep doing it even if you suck at it.

 

[khfreakau]

Are you suggesting that the current scalings of subjects are unfair? Not the way they are calculated - but as scaling doesn't change all that much year to year - rather, the degree to which they are scaled.

For some subjects, the degree of scaling seems fair to me, while for others, the scaling is simply not reflective of the difficulty of the course. I think you and I can both agree that some subjects scale much more than they probably should, while others are the opposite.

Regardless, it's impossible to get a scaling system that satisfies everyone, so I think we just have to deal with what we get haha.