Republican Primaries (5 Viewers)

[Lentern]

no i was arguing you're claim that RP policy's wouldn't be beneficial.

As I stated earlier Romney will get the nomination and lose the election

What the gold and silver thing? Come off it.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

if ron paul was elected the red shield would orchestrate his assassination. JFK tried to tamper with the fed and they got him.

hahaha fuck just looked up, dam that's a legit theory..... scary

 

[scuba_steve2121]

What the gold and silver thing? Come off it.

so civilisations around the world have hard currency for thousands of years and then less than a century ago somebody says why not have paper currency backed by nothing and say it has value? Fiat currencies don't last and make no sense

 

[Lentern]

so civilisations around the world have hard currency for thousands of years and then less than a century ago somebody says why not have paper currency backed by nothing and say it has value? Fiat currencies don't last and make no sense

Why not just do away with it all together and return to a barter system?

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Why not just do away with it all together and return to a barter system?

you don't know how standards work do you?

 

[Lentern]

you don't know how hard currency works do you?

Hard currency doesn't work is my point. But no , those of us in the real world tend to spend more time pondering things that might actually have a scintilla of tangible impact on the world around us not bogus abstract concepts derived from pedantic readings of arcane old legal documents.

 

[Chemical Ali]

real manly libertarians accept only the platinum standard

 

[funkshen]

real manly libertarians accept only the platinum standard

i think you're referring to the bismuth standard.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Hard currency doesn't work is my point. But no , those of us in the real world tend to spend more time pondering things that might actually have a scintilla of tangible impact on the world around us not bogus abstract concepts derived from pedantic readings of arcane old legal documents.

gold, silver etc etc worked for 1000's of years, we go off it and now look at the mess we're in.

The US dollar is crashing, why do you think the price of gold is so high? EVERYBODY IS BUYING IT, they all realise the US dollar will be a thing of the past if they martian their current policy course. Countries like China and India are increasing their gold reserves at an insane rate, they know what's going on. the end of fiat currency is here

 

[funkshen]

come off it scuba, gold and silver have not worked for the past thousands of years. every authority responsible for maintaining a metals-based currency has continually changed the terms and amounts of convertibility.

the fact is, no monetary policy (based on gold or fiat) can survive reckless taxation and spending policies. if we can't get rid of the state in a time frame of any relevance to this discussion, the focus should first be on reining in government and fiscal policy.

the only reason china and india are hoarding gold is because gold is currently a better method of settling international transactions, of which they plan to make many more in the future.

this is not the end of fiat currency, but of questioning the reserve status of US dollars (questioned because of their reckless policies!). and euros too i guess.

 

[Lentern]

gold, silver etc etc worked for 1000's of years, we go off it and now look at the mess we're in.

The US dollar is crashing, why do you think the price of gold is so high? EVERYBODY IS BUYING IT, they all realise the US dollar will be a thing of the past if they martian their current policy course. Countries like China and India are increasing their gold reserves at an insane rate, they know what's going on. the end of fiat currency is here

Sorry? You think China is shaping to abandon the yuan? lulz.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

come off it scuba, gold and silver have not worked for the past thousands of years. every authority responsible for maintaining a metals-based currency has continually changed the terms and amounts of convertibility.

the fact is, no monetary policy (based on gold or fiat) can survive reckless taxation and spending policies. if we can't get rid of the state in a time frame of any relevance to this discussion, the focus should first be on reining in government and fiscal policy.

the only reason china and india are hoarding gold is because gold is currently a better method of settling international transactions, of which they plan to make many more in the future.

this is not the end of fiat currency, but of questioning the reserve status of US dollars (questioned because of their reckless policies!). and euros too i guess.

can't spend too much if you can't inflate the money supply

Fiat currency will end, won't be next year or in 10 or probs even in our life time, but it will end

Sorry? You think China is shaping to abandon the yuan? lulz.

haha no it will just make them more financially powerful, as they increase their real wealth, because with great amounts of gold comes great power and i guess responsibility too maybe?

look tbh they way we have fucked ourselves over, you can't just return to a gold, silver standard or whatever, but what you can do is make it legal tender again.

 

[Lentern]

can't spend too much if you can't inflate the money supply

Fiat currency will end, won't be next year or in 10 or probs even in our life time, but it will end



haha no it will just make them more financially powerful, as they increase their real wealth, because with great amounts of gold comes great power and i guess responsibility too maybe?

look tbh they way we have fucked ourselves over, you can't just return to a gold, silver standard or whatever, but what you can do is make it legal tender again.

Doesn't Ron Paul say that fiat currency is illegal under the US constitution?

 

[funkshen]

precious metals will not form the basis of future monetary policy in our state-based system. states can inflate the money supply, and always have. furthermore, it has been demonstrated that a negotiated rules-based international gold-based monetary system is untenable (see: Bretton Woods).

gold and silver are already legal tender between private citizens. but you do have a point regarding obligations to the state, and it seems this is actually happening: see Utah, Minnesota (i think?).

gold and silver are not the panacea to spendthrift government. they have as many problems, if not more. the whole point of the past 4 years has not been that that the fiat system is fundamentally flawed. it has instead been a shock reminder that the fiat system is based on faith/anticipated revenues and ability to meet obligations etc. the lesson learned regards easy money and spendthrift governments.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Doesn't Ron Paul say that fiat currency is illegal under the US constitution?

Article I, Section 8:

"The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures"

Article 1 section 10

"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."

basically yes gold and silver are the only forms of money authorised under the US Constitution.

 

[Lentern]

No, they are the only legal forms under Ron Paul's rather novel interpretation of the constitution. This is what happens when people other than lawyers try their hand at politics...

 

[scuba_steve2121]

No, they are the only legal forms under Ron Paul's rather novel interpretation of the constitution. This is what happens when people other than lawyers try their hand at politics...

ok.... it's there in black and white in front of your eyes..... don't go all climate change denier style on me

 

[Lentern]

ok.... it's there in black and white in front of your eyes..... don't go all climate change denier style on me

"No state shall" not "The United States shall not" ergo, individual states can't formulate there own currencies, the federal congress however is well within it's rights. For a more detailed explanation see Farmers and Merchants Bank v Federal Reserves Bank where the issue was raised long before you or I were even born.

 

[peikoff]

Like it or not, the issue of fiat currency is a constitutionally permitted process. I do law at USYD (and my friend does law at ANU). We were talking about this based on our classes in constitutional law (which includes a section on foreign constitutions) and Article 1 of the constitution states that it is permissible. Further there have been numerous cases (Knox v Lee, parker v davies etc.) which establish it as consistemt with the constitution.

Even the school of thought advocated by the constitutional originalists entails its permissibility as Thomas Jefferson wanted an amendment to the constitution which prohibited fiat currency and so it obviously was understood that the constitution, in and of itself, did not prohibit it.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Like it or not, the issue of fiat currency is a constitutionally permitted process. I do law at USYD (and my friend does law at ANU). We were talking about this based on our classes in constitutional law (which includes a section on foreign constitutions) and Article 1 of the constitution states that it is permissible. Further there have been numerous cases (Knox v Lee, parker v davies etc.) which establish it as consistemt with the constitution.

Even the school of thought advocated by the constitutional originalists entails its permissibility as Thomas Jefferson wanted an amendment to the constitution which prohibited fiat currency and so it obviously was understood that the constitution, in and of itself, did not prohibit it.

I had a talk with the same friend to get his take on it, you're right I was wrong and by extension RP is wrong.