Israel Affirmative Action in Gaza (1 Viewer)

[funkshen]

Don't pretend to misunderstand my line of argument.

don't pretend you had a line of argument

 

[funkshen]

My argument was that assassinating someone is not ethical.

that was a flippant remark, not an argument

 

[Galladrim]

My argument was that assassinating someone is not ethical. Or more broadly, you don't have to be completely ignorant as to the recent sequence of events in order to disapprove of assassinations.

I'm in complete agreement with you, but as I asked before - what is the alternative approach?

 

[soloooooo]

yes but you don't understand stuff.

I know know more than enough on this debate.

 

[copyright_squid]

then why do you disapprove of israel's actions? their first action (rather, a reaction) was to assassinate ahmed jabari, an elusive and high-value hamas military command target. responding to the indiscriminate rocket campaign with a targeted, no collateral attack falls well within the logic of a exchange between asymmetric forces. all the subsequent (claimed) palestinian casualties are the result of both the rocket brigades and hamas military command being purposely located in civilian districts. all nations, israel included, reserve the right to self-defence and civilian collateral is universally accepted and, in this circumstance, the supreme responsibility of the hamas government. further considering that iran has massively increased its sponsorship of hamas since the last conflict, this was always going to happen. so i don't know what specifically, there is to disapprove of.

this. hamas could just shoot their rockets from open fields or something.

 

[JT145]

Hypothetically if Israel invades Gaza will this promote a reaction from other Arab nations? Could the USA potentially get involved?

 

[funkshen]

The process of assassinating political rivals in order to achieve political goals is one which could not be universally applied. Therefore using Kant's categorical imperative which I tend to view as the most reliable formula for evaluating ethicality, Israel's conduct has not been entirely ethical and as such it is reasonable to disapprove of it.

israel didn't assassinate a political rival. this was a targeted killing of an enemy commander who was, no less, directly responsible for the barrage of rocket attacks and the coordination of a number of other hamas activities such as hostage taking.

the categorical imperative is moral anarchism at its most base and it is application is an impossibility. because i'm positive you haven't actually read kant, i don't blame you for thinking that the categorical imperative is a useful ethical heuristic. regardless, it is lazy and arrogant. this is most evident in the fact that this is a clear case of conflicting imperatives. the international law that sanctions the state's right to self defence is customary (i.e. universal). if you have any leaning towards international law as the expression or arbiter of the morality (i.e. rules) of international exchange, then how can the killing of a legitimate military target (your 'assassination') be unethical?

more importantly, kant uses the categorical imperative to establish the immorality of masturbation and homosexuality, and it is for this reason that he and his imperative can fuck right off

why you think your (or anyone's) special judgement of a sequence of events is valid, or contributes to argument, is beyond me. i would argue that, at this point, it is better to ask wherefore ethics? most are truly concerned with the peaceful resolution of this conflict, not its righteous or categorical absolution. judgement is always condemnation, and must give way to reasoned analysis of cause and effect. emotional fatigue will always give way to desperation for respite. temporary respite begets cooperation, which begets forgiveness.

on the other hand, popular support for the IDF and the integrity of the jewish nation will forever sustain the perpetual war against the arab occupants of gaza and the west bank. it is for these reasons that the tactics of asymmetric war will only ever fail hamas, who will never enjoy the successes of fatah at the bargaining table. if it is not, as you say, israel's right to pursue the resolution of conflict, than this responsibility falls solely on the palestinian, who must cast hamas out, and transcend the meddling of the islamic and arab world in the conflict.

Well an actual solution would involve broad political reform of the Palestine/Israeli area but of course funkshen would deride anyone who said that as being ignorant to the details of the most recent skirmish.

broad political reform i.e. nuclear apocalypse

 

[soloooooo]

Hypothetically if Israel invades Gaza will this promote a reaction from other Arab nations? Could the USA potentially get involved?

Israel will go into Gaza. The us has backed them. Other Arab nations wouldn't be stupid enough to get involved.

 

[soloooooo]

Surely, Jews that they are, Israeli's should be bound by the ten commandments, including something about not killing?

You cannot be serious.

 

[funkshen]

Israel will go into Gaza. The us has backed them. Other Arab nations wouldn't be stupid enough to get involved.

israel has no reason to go into gaza. without an accomodative mubarak regime in Egypt, an invasion would only temporarily flush hamas VIPs out into the sinai, which has grown increasingly lawless since mubarak's fall. they will be truly out of israels grasp, and all it will have is a proper occupation on their hands.

 

[kaz1]

Although Palestine may have started this latest conflict - they started it due to the oppressive regime of Israel.

Israel started it by killing Jabari, Hamas retaliated with rockets.

 

[Blastus]

Israel started it by killing Jabari, Hamas retaliated with rockets.

then it's warcrimes all the way down.

 

[Blastus]

Hey Townie mate for a Palestine supporter how long would you as an openly gay male last there before being executed?

 

[Graney]

Israel started it by killing Jabari, Hamas retaliated with rockets.

That is a lie. Over 100 rockets were fired into Israel in the 2 days before Jabari was killed.

 

[forgot]

Although Palestine may have started this latest conflict - they started it due to the oppressive regime of Israel.
Palestinians have been made to suffer for long enough and are attempting to fight back. I'm not saying that they haven't committed any atrocities themselves, but if someone came and took my country- then forced many of the inhabitants to flee to neighbouring countries I'd be pretty fucking pissed.
But... I also understand the Jewish plight in all of this. They had 6 million massacred- and anti-Semitism still lingered so they had to go somewhere. But the excessive force they used in their consolidation of power makes me feel more empathy towards the Palestinians.

I also live near Bondi, so I have a lot of Jewish friends who are pro-zionist and don't see the damage that Israel has done to the Palestinians. Their Jewish school has brainwashed them into believing that Israel was always their land.

would agree, the world is blindsided to how much the palestinians have suffered for many years, and put the blame card on them. i think enough is enough and the palestinians deserve their right to be angry.

 

[SylviaB]

lol wow

 

[Kiraken]

lol wow

reading the comments a lot of people who voted on that (on both sides) sound incredibly retarded

 

[copyright_squid]

would agree, the world is blindsided to how much the palestinians have suffered for many years, and put the blame card on them. i think enough is enough and the palestinians deserve their right to be angry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
they've been firing rockets at civilian communities since 2001 though, so Israel has to respond.

 

[Blastus]

would agree, the world is blindsided to how much the palestinians have suffered for many years, and put the blame card on them. i think enough is enough and the palestinians deserve their right to be angry.

Mate Hamas have said they will not accept the 67 or even 48 borders and expressly do not believe the state of Israel should exist. How are Israel supposed to cope with that?

How are Israeli citizens supposed to cope with rockets TARGETING citizens in south Israel? A two state solution makes the most sense but at the moment Hamas can't crack down on the crazies busting off rockets provided by hezbollah and the iranians. Gaza is just a test bed for the iranians and hezbollah to funnel money in to make israel look weak internationally so they can push through a bid for recognition at the UN. I don't see any way out of this other than occupation of Gaza (bad idea) or basically razing any and all hamas infrastructure (equally fucking bad idea). The question has to be asked who is gaining from the current state of affairs, because it sure as hell isn't Israel.

 

[soloooooo]

I miss the cray bos muslims who would say the most insane shit and lose their minds when I'd post stuff about how white phosphorous is totally safe.



This thread is a disappointment you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

They still exist.