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2008 Presidential Election - Obama v McCain (2 Viewers)

Who would you vote for?

  • Barrack Obama

    Votes: 381 76.0%
  • John Mccain

    Votes: 120 24.0%

  • Total voters
    501

Iron

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Captain Hero said:
What's the solution other than nuking the middle east; then? If it's such a hopeless case, withdraw the forces and take 'em all out at once.
I'm not saying it's hopeless? I'm saying that there's clearly a security threat right now. You cant have anything before you have stability. The government needs time and pressure to sort out the domestics and they will surely fail at this without the American army.
 

Enteebee

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

In the end it's likely there will still be many ethnic skirmishes, but the real solution is to build up a nationally respected government and well equipped army structure which incorporates all the ethnic militias and can fight insurgencies. Perhaps a pipe dream, but the reports seem to be that they're certainly getting better at it.

A phased withdrawal will probably mean that the Iraqi's will get their act together and start stepping up but of course if there comes a time during the withdrawal that the Iraqi army cannot step up the US is obliged not to continue with the withdrawal until the problem is met. At the moment that's not there, without American support the Iraqi army would most definitely have no control over many parts of the country.
 

Captain Hero

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Iron said:
I'm not saying it's hopeless? I'm saying that there's clearly a security threat right now. You cant have anything before you have stability. The government needs time and pressure to sort out the domestics and they will surely fail at this without the American army.
How does the American army deal with the current security threat?
 

Iron

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

It's a policing matter
THEY ARE WINNING

There's light at the end of the tunnel
 

Captain Hero

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Iron said:
It's a policing matter
THEY ARE WINNING
They need more troops on the ground to solve the problem and the US' running out of dem done troopys.

What they need to do is get the Iraqi army up to scratch (what Chadd said) and get the infrastructure back into place.
 

Iron

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Captain Hero said:
They need more troops on the ground to solve the problem and the US' running out of dem done troopys.

What they need to do is get the Iraqi army up to scratch (what Chadd said) and get the infrastructure back into place.
Totally agree. This should not be subject to the domestic whims of the American people. America's own security should be above politics.
 

Enteebee

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Iron said:
Totally agree. This should not be subject to the domestic whims of the American people. America's own security should be above politics.
WE SHOULD JUST NUKE THA FUCKIN MUSSIES AND TAKE THEIR OIL HAHAHahhaha
 

Captain Hero

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Iron said:
Totally agree. This should not be subject to the domestic whims of the American people. America's own security should be above politics.
American war strategy a victim of popularism?! Never! This isn't going to start a reverse domino effect in the region spreading democracy from place to place.

IF WE DON'T FIGHT THEM OVER HERE WE'LL HAVE TO FIGHT THEM AT HOME?
 

Iron

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Captain Hero said:
American war strategy a victim of popularism?! Never! This isn't going to start a reverse domino effect in the region spreading democracy from place to place.

IF WE DON'T FIGHT THEM OVER HERE WE'LL HAVE TO FIGHT THEM AT HOME?
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.
Iraq was a mistake, I wont deny that. The Bush administration should get a one-way ticket to Holland and rot in some candy and ginger-bread cell, as far as i'm concerned. But admitting to the mistakes does not FIX anything. An Obama apology to the people of Iraq will not prevent terrorism and sectarian violence in Iraq
 

Captain Hero

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Iron said:
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.
Iraq was a mistake, I wont deny that. The Bush administration should get a one-way ticket to Holland and rot in some candy and ginger-bread cell, as far as i'm concerned. But admitting to the mistakes does not FIX anything. An Obama apology to the people of Iraq will not prevent terrorism and sectarian violence in Iraq
Wonderful summary and oddly echoes my own beliefs. What you and I differ on is how we can best deal with the increase in sectarian violence within the region. I truly believe promoting trade and education within the reason will reduce the draw of religious fundamentalism and you believe that properly enforcing the law will do the same.

They fluffed afghanistan by throwing it to the dogs but also by not providing the country with any modernity an infrastructure to help grow a disaffected population. The same will happen in Iraq if there is no infrastructure, regardless of how iron the fist of the ruler and how soft the whip is.
 

Iron

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Re: Barrack OBama or John Mccain?

Captain Hero said:
Wonderful summary and oddly echoes my own beliefs. What you and I differ on is how we can best deal with the increase in sectarian violence within the region. I truly believe promoting trade and education within the reason will reduce the draw of religious fundamentalism and you believe that properly enforcing the law will do the same.

They fluffed afghanistan by throwing it to the dogs but also by not providing the country with any modernity an infrastructure to help grow a disaffected population. The same will happen in Iraq if there is no infrastructure, regardless of how iron the fist of the ruler and how soft the whip is.
Sure, and I think that they're doing that. But at the same time, I feel uneasy about everything coming from above. I'd only advocate the bare minimum to enable individuals to become empowered enough to prosper in their own country. I.e all the destroyed infrastructure should be rebuilt to a standard that facilitates trade and security, and certain groups and individuals should be compensated for loss of income, property and loved ones. If Iraqi's cant grasp that this is the best offer they'll get to improve themselves, then hell maybe we should leave them to the dogs. THe fact is that all signs are pointing to positive progress. Obama should stay the course.
 

A High Way Man

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its funny how the republicans put some old guy as their candidate and not one of any of their newcomers, thinking they would get slaughtered in the GE. but now he has a pretty g00d chance
 

Captain Hero

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A High Way Man said:
its funny how the republicans put some old guy as their candidate and not one of any of their newcomers, thinking they would get slaughtered in the GE. but now he has a pretty g00d chance
Remember when he was winning the primaries how everyone was whining that he wasn't a "real Republican".

Time heals all wounds.
 

A High Way Man

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And she embarked on a 8 hour flight when her water _broke_

Digger said:
My wife is a gynecologist. She can't believe any woman who wants to keep a baby would get on any airplane after her water broke, especially a flight of eight plus hours not including the additional landing in Seattle. Then she drove 50 miles to a health facility in Wasilla, pop 5000. If she was eight months pregnant as she claims, then the baby was being born premature, which indicates possible complications such as infection that could kill the baby or the mother. Why would any sane person in the midst of labor fly thousands of miles to deliver a premature baby in a backwater health facility when she was minutes away from world class facilities in Texas, where preemie with special needs could get topnotch care? This indicates, at the very least a callous example of idiotic bad judgement that put the baby and her life at risk, and at worst, needless fraud to the American people.
 

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