60% of Uni Students live below the Poverty Line (3 Viewers)

[Xayma]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...ow-poverty-line/2005/05/14/1116024407236.html

But out of curiosity I'd like the see where Felix got that stat from... it was a bit slack of the SMH to run that as a headline without any backup of where the stat was from, they just took it as hearsay from Felix (who, you know, has a bit of an agenda!).... not entirely responsible reporting.

So yes, what do you all think the solution could be? Or do you deny that our universities are going down shit creek without a paddle or even a boat?

Poverty and inequality

In its 1990 World Development Report, the World Bank used a poverty line for each country set at the equivalent (in 1985) of US $370 per person per year. On this basis - equivalent in Australia to around $10 per person per week - there is virtually no poverty in Australia. However, the World Banks' focus was on absolute or subsistence poverty - not having enough income to be able to secure minimum levels of food, clothing and shelter.

In rich countries like Australia, poverty is conceived in relative rather than absolute terms. This implies that poverty is defined not in terms of a lack of sufficient resources to meet basic needs, but rather as lacking the resources required to be able to participate in the lifestyle and consumption patterns enjoyed by other Australians. To be relatively poor is thus to be forced to live on the margins of society, to be excluded from the normal spheres of consumption and activity which together define social participation and national identity.

The acceptance of poverty as a relative concept means that poverty and inequality are related. Relative poverty can only exist where there is inequality, but this does not mean that poverty and inequality are the same. Not all forms of inequality will imply relative poverty, only those in which some individuals or groups fall well below the average. The eradication of relative poverty will require some reduction in inequality, but how much and at what cost will depend upon the nature and severity of the poverty problem.

Source: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/5D709B83B7F7C25ECA2569DE00221C86

So even taking a monetary definition of poverty in Australia (later in the same piece):

Table S2.1 presents the poverty lines for income units in the workforce in the March quarter 1995.
.
.
.
(Poverty lines for those not in the workforce were around $41 below those shown in table S2.1 for each income unit type). Housing costs vary with family size, but range from around $70 a week for a single person up to $106 a week for a couple with four children.
S2.1 POVERTY LINES FOR AUSTRALIA, MARCH QUARTER 1995(a)

Single person

Including Housing: $215.6


Not including Housing: $145.1

Source: Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research, 1995, Table 1

Source: As previous

Which would place me (adjusted for inflation) (and many students) below the poverty line. Yet I still survive quite well. I can go out, I can eat and I can get clothing (it must amaze many university students that there does exist places such as Target).

So while it may be considered to be in poverty, it is far from uncomfortable.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I think people have missed the original point of this post. Instead they have taken it as students "whinging" about having to pay for university...

I think the most concerning thing about these statistics is that it is another reason why international students will not want to attend university here. Without international students providing income, what will happen to our unis? Especially when previous articles talk about our university standards declining... why pay a lot to come and study in Australia when you can get the same, if not better, elsewhere for cheaper?

Imagine being a foreign student, paying shitloads to come here, English is your second language and you are scrubbing dishes in some restaurant for 40 hours a week to pay to be here..... your education is suffering, you would be better off going somewhere cheaper. We had a guy from Bangladesh who worked for us at my parents shop whose family had sacrificed so much to send him to study in Australia.... and because of all the glossy marketing crap, they weren't really sure what to expect. Where did he end up? CSU Albury... not exactly worth thousands of dollars a year, and he was working 3 jobs to afford to be here, plus his family were helping.

And wow, everyone is so quick to judge people who are having financial difficulties who are studying... which is kinda ironic, because most of the people who are judging live at home, and the majority of us on this board are from middle class backgrounds I would assume.

It's just like when I have to sit and listen in class to north shore girls whinging about how poor they are when they work 5 hours a week at sass and bide and their parents pay for everything except their "going out" money. Some people don't understand the realities of the real world.

I agree with neo in the respect that once you get on YA you easily have enough to live off... it's just getting on YA that is the problem. There are many problems with the current youth allowance system, because it is easily rorted by the rich... (e.g. a girl in my course was "paid" by her parents to travel Europe for a year and when she came back she was eligible for youth allowance) plus it doesn't help in situations where people can't defer their university place etc. I had friends who deferred uni for a year to earn money to qualify for YA but because it is hard to get a job in regional areas they couldn't get enough work (and believe me it was not for lack of trying) and hence they didn't earn enough to qualify. Also, did you know that when you are qualifying for YA you are only allowed to have $2500 in your bank account? It's so stupid, if you defer for a year to save money for uni you should have heaps more than that saved up in the bank, but you can't get YA technically until you have "spent" it (read... withdrawing it and hiding it in various locations around your house). Bureaucracy, hey? What a wonderful system

neo, you are lucky you have a 40 week contract, UTS housing only offers 52 week contracts, so that means my rent increases by 2010 bucks a year.... and the money is basically thrown away because I am always in Albury during the long hols trying to save money. It is because the housing service (even though it is partially funded by the student body) is only interested in profits instead of actually helping students.

But anyway, now I have gotten off topic. What sort of message do you think stats like this send out to potential international students at our universities? I think it is a major cause for concern, especially when students return to their home countries and tell people how underfunded and devoid of campus life and student services our universities are.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Thanks for the stats Xayma and replying to my questioning of the stat Felix had.

When you look at the poverty line, it is pretty "high".... like if you didn't have rent, and were a young student without many financial committments then $145 is easy to live off. So I guess that is where the statistic has come from, and why it seems a bit too high.

 

[Korn]

we need poor people in our society.

if everyone got a degree and became doctors, lawyers, accountants etc.

who's gonna fry my chips? who's gonna clean my car?

the system is just fine, let the rich take up the top jobs, let the poor stack the boxes.

Are you from a rich background or just protending to be?/

 

[Generator]

And wow, everyone is so quick to judge people who are having financial difficulties who are studying... which is kinda ironic, because most of the people who are judging live at home, and the majority of us on this board are from middle class backgrounds I would assume.

It's just like when I have to sit and listen in class to north shore girls whinging about how poor they are when they work 5 hours a week at sass and bide and their parents pay for everything except their "going out" money. Some people don't understand the realities of the real world.

The real world? Why is your reality any more real than that of the daughter of a wealthy man and woman? Surely you are old enough to realise that there is no such thing as a single real world?

I do see your point in that there are many who fail to recognise the diversity of experiences existing outside their own little world, but that is not to say that their world is any less real than that of another. We all live in sheltered worlds, but I doubt that many would actually accept this notion in any way, so I'm afraid that those 'what about me?' westies and the 'oh no, I'm poor!' north shore girls will forever have a place in our society.

Edit: I'm not sure how this post will be taken, but I'm merely trying to say that despite the egalitarian rhetoric, our country is divided in many ways and the realities of life are quite different for us all. It isn't something that we should just accept as being 'right', but it is something that we should all recognise from time to time.

 

[ogmzergrush]

I think people have missed the original point of this post. Instead they have taken it as students "whinging" about having to pay for university...

Aside from "The expense is going to turn people off coming here as internationals..." it sounded a lot like you were just "whinging", if that's not what you were doing then I have indeed misinterpreted your point in posting this.

I think the most concerning thing about these statistics is that it is another reason why international students will not want to attend university here. Without international students providing income, what will happen to our unis? Especially when previous articles talk about our university standards declining... why pay a lot to come and study in Australia when you can get the same, if not better, elsewhere for cheaper?

The most obvious response is asking when are we likely to see the outcomes of this lack of interest? For all the doom and gloom about it, as of this point in time I remain unconvinced that it's going to be as much of an issue as people are playing it up to be. The article also mentions that Universities in the UK and US are more expensive than here, and they seem to be doing fine, and seem to have maintained their reputations for excellence, so I don't really see the cause for concern.

Imagine being a foreign student, paying shitloads to come here, English is your second language and you are scrubbing dishes in some restaurant for 40 hours a week to pay to be here..... your education is suffering, you would be better off going somewhere cheaper. We had a guy from Bangladesh who worked for us at my parents shop whose family had sacrificed so much to send him to study in Australia.... and because of all the glossy marketing crap, they weren't really sure what to expect. Where did he end up? CSU Albury... not exactly worth thousands of dollars a year, and he was working 3 jobs to afford to be here, plus his family were helping.

If that's genuinely the case, I don't see a problem at all with him (Or others in the same situation), going elsewhere where they can get better value. If the Unis here compete so poorly in comparison to international unis (Which I'm not really convinced they are), then maybe we should all go somewhere else and let the ones here go to shit.

And wow, everyone is so quick to judge people who are having financial difficulties who are studying... which is kinda ironic, because most of the people who are judging live at home, and the majority of us on this board are from middle class backgrounds I would assume.

I'm not entirely sure who your comment is aimed at, so I'll assume it encompasses me as I was one of the people who responded negatively to your original post. What I was passing comment on personally was the fact that it seems ridiculous for someone who is in University studying to complain about being below the poverty line, when there are people elsewhere who for financial reasons are realistically unable to even consider University. It's a great opportunity, and by taking up the offer you're agreeing to make significant sacrifices to ensure that it happens.

Maybe that's not fair, and I realise it's not the way it works in other countries, but in Australia it does, and it's likely to stay that way for the forseeable future. In a perfect world, this probably wouldn't be the case, but as you can see, it's not perfect.

It's just like when I have to sit and listen in class to north shore girls whinging about how poor they are when they work 5 hours a week at sass and bide and their parents pay for everything except their "going out" money. Some people don't understand the realities of the real world.

Realities of the real world? As I said before, people who manage to gain access to a University in Australia who are complaining about being hard done by, have it lucky compared to a whole lot of others.

I agree with neo in the respect that once you get on YA you easily have enough to live off... it's just getting on YA that is the problem. There are many problems with the current youth allowance system, because it is easily rorted by the rich... (e.g. a girl in my course was "paid" by her parents to travel Europe for a year and when she came back she was eligible for youth allowance) plus it doesn't help in situations where people can't defer their university place etc. I had friends who deferred uni for a year to earn money to qualify for YA but because it is hard to get a job in regional areas they couldn't get enough work (and believe me it was not for lack of trying) and hence they didn't earn enough to qualify. Also, did you know that when you are qualifying for YA you are only allowed to have $2500 in your bank account? It's so stupid, if you defer for a year to save money for uni you should have heaps more than that saved up in the bank, but you can't get YA technically until you have "spent" it (read... withdrawing it and hiding it in various locations around your house). Bureaucracy, hey? What a wonderful system

This section seems directed towards neo, but I'll agree there, the current YA system eats shit, but again, it's not a perfect world, and it's not getting better any time soon.

But anyway, now I have gotten off topic. What sort of message do you think stats like this send out to potential international students at our universities? I think it is a major cause for concern, especially when students return to their home countries and tell people how underfunded and devoid of campus life and student services our universities are.

Hopefully international students see them and think "wow, that's a pretty flashy headline, good to see the media in Australia is still doing what it does best". In the interests of responding seriously to that though, I'd hope that they go home and tell people about the quality of their degree and the tuition they received, rather than warning people against visiting the Unis here due to their "lack" of "campus life" and "student services".

 

[Cooleroo]

Are you from a rich background or just protending to be?/

pretending, but im not super poor either.

 

[Korn]

I think people have missed the original point of this post. Instead they have taken it as students "whinging" about having to pay for university...

I think the most concerning thing about these statistics is that it is another reason why international students will not want to attend university here. Without international students providing income, what will happen to our unis? Especially when previous articles talk about our university standards declining... why pay a lot to come and study in Australia when you can get the same, if not better, elsewhere for cheaper?

Imagine being a foreign student, paying shitloads to come here, English is your second language and you are scrubbing dishes in some restaurant for 40 hours a week to pay to be here..... your education is suffering, you would be better off going somewhere cheaper. We had a guy from Bangladesh who worked for us at my parents shop whose family had sacrificed so much to send him to study in Australia.... and because of all the glossy marketing crap, they weren't really sure what to expect. Where did he end up? CSU Albury... not exactly worth thousands of dollars a year, and he was working 3 jobs to afford to be here, plus his family were helping.

And wow, everyone is so quick to judge people who are having financial difficulties who are studying... which is kinda ironic, because most of the people who are judging live at home, and the majority of us on this board are from middle class backgrounds I would assume.

It's just like when I have to sit and listen in class to north shore girls whinging about how poor they are when they work 5 hours a week at sass and bide and their parents pay for everything except their "going out" money. Some people don't understand the realities of the real world.

I agree with neo in the respect that once you get on YA you easily have enough to live off... it's just getting on YA that is the problem. There are many problems with the current youth allowance system, because it is easily rorted by the rich... (e.g. a girl in my course was "paid" by her parents to travel Europe for a year and when she came back she was eligible for youth allowance) plus it doesn't help in situations where people can't defer their university place etc. I had friends who deferred uni for a year to earn money to qualify for YA but because it is hard to get a job in regional areas they couldn't get enough work (and believe me it was not for lack of trying) and hence they didn't earn enough to qualify. Also, did you know that when you are qualifying for YA you are only allowed to have $2500 in your bank account? It's so stupid, if you defer for a year to save money for uni you should have heaps more than that saved up in the bank, but you can't get YA technically until you have "spent" it (read... withdrawing it and hiding it in various locations around your house). Bureaucracy, hey? What a wonderful system

neo, you are lucky you have a 40 week contract, UTS housing only offers 52 week contracts, so that means my rent increases by 2010 bucks a year.... and the money is basically thrown away because I am always in Albury during the long hols trying to save money. It is because the housing service (even though it is partially funded by the student body) is only interested in profits instead of actually helping students.

But anyway, now I have gotten off topic. What sort of message do you think stats like this send out to potential international students at our universities? I think it is a major cause for concern, especially when students return to their home countries and tell people how underfunded and devoid of campus life and student services our universities are.

If the education is better in their home country's they wouldnt be coming here, so it is a logical conclusion that our education system is better then theirs.
Also I'm not sure, but wouldnt our uni's be cheaper then some others like the US and Europe?

 

[ohne]

I have pretty much no income, although I generally do some work in the holidays which earns a few thousand per year.

I live with my family so I pay nothing for rent, electricity, food etc. The only expenses I have are for public transport and sometimes purchasing food at uni (and of course union fees, which subsidise the increased level of services used by those who have the money to live closer to uni). I am not a recipient of any government handouts and I don't see the need for them.

In my opinion the main problem is that there is too many governmen handouts for students, a better situation would be offering students interest free loans for living expenses. There is nothing wrong with students working part time while at uni.

 

[Korn]

I have pretty much no income, although I generally do some work in the holidays which earns a few thousand per year.

I live with my family so I pay nothing for rent, electricity, food etc. The only expenses I have are for public transport and sometimes purchasing food at uni (and of course union fees, which subsidise the increased level of services used by those who have the money to live closer to uni). I am not a recipient of any government handouts and I don't see the need for them.

In my opinion the main problem is that there is too many governmen handouts for students, a better situation would be offering students interest free loans for living expenses. There is nothing wrong with students working part time while at uni.

Thanks that reminds me.
Those ppl that are comlaining I have a question. How often do you buy food at uni? Where do you buy your clothes? How often do you go out partying or clubbing? What else do you waste your money on?

 

[elisabeth]

If the education is better in their home country's they wouldnt be coming here, so it is a logical conclusion that our education system is better then theirs.
Also I'm not sure, but wouldnt our uni's be cheaper then some others like the US and Europe?

Not necessarily. Part of the reason people do uni abroad is so they can attain fluency in another language, which will give them better job opportunities afterwards. What's gonna get you on your way to fluency quickest:

- doing a degree at a foreign university
- doing a degree in your home country and moving abroad for a few years

I'm personally considering going to uni in England (no, not at exuberant international student prices - duel nationality) and yes, the costs look scary... but you have to consider, people make more money there to compensate for higher living costs.

 

[Slidey]

I'm going to uni in Russia. Thankfully the cost is actually less than here in Australia.

On that note, people complaining about living below the poverty line while at uni don't know a thing about poverty.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Generator, I agree with you... the use of the "real" world phrase wasn't very PC.... I meant more people who don't have much scope when it comes to other people's situations.

As for partying/clubbing.... a couple of bottles of spumante and the TV are are usual repetoire for me and my friends, but we have fun, it's tops. And as for new clothes.... I can count how many items of clothing I have bought in the past 6 months on one hand, and that includes work gear. That stuff doesn't bother me at all. It's all part of the uni experience. Any money I can save goes straight in to my travelling fund because that's what I choose to spend any extra money I come upon.

But some people are REALLY struggling financially, not just having to cut back on their booze and wardrobe. I have a friend here... one of her parents just got made redundant... she is doing a course which requires a lot of hours. She tries to work but she can't work enough to cover all of her costs, plus she has a brother at university elsewhere. She is entitled to some money from centrelink now, but because she is still "dependent" it is only about $70 a week, which she loses if she earns more than $100 pw. With rent/bills of $150, that leaves $20 a week to live off... her parents send her a bit of money but she doesn't like to ask them because they are having financial difficulties of their own.

How many of you folks could live on $20-40 a week... remembering that includes all groceries, phone bills, transport, uni costs? Fun hey?

 

[Korn]

Generator, I agree with you... the use of the "real" world phrase wasn't very PC.... I meant more people who don't have much scope when it comes to other people's situations.

As for partying/clubbing.... a couple of bottles of spumante and the TV are are usual repetoire for me and my friends, but we have fun, it's tops. And as for new clothes.... I can count how many items of clothing I have bought in the past 6 months on one hand, and that includes work gear. That stuff doesn't bother me at all. It's all part of the uni experience. Any money I can save goes straight in to my travelling fund because that's what I choose to spend any extra money I come upon.

But some people are REALLY struggling financially, not just having to cut back on their booze and wardrobe. I have a friend here... one of her parents just got made redundant... she is doing a course which requires a lot of hours. She tries to work but she can't work enough to cover all of her costs, plus she has a brother at university elsewhere. She is entitled to some money from centrelink now, but because she is still "dependent" it is only about $70 a week, which she loses if she earns more than $100 pw. With rent/bills of $150, that leaves $20 a week to live off... her parents send her a bit of money but she doesn't like to ask them because they are having financial difficulties of their own.

How many of you folks could live on $20-40 a week... remembering that includes all groceries, phone bills, transport, uni costs? Fun hey?

Why doesn't she do uni part-time?? Or dropout to make some $$$ and go back there are alot of mature age students at uni

 

[SashatheMan]

I'm going to uni in Russia. Thankfully the cost is actually less than here in Australia.

On that note, people complaining about living below the poverty line while at uni don't know a thing about poverty.

cool . do u know russian? and why did u decide to to go russia/ . i am russian btw

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why doesn't she do uni part-time?? Or dropout to make some $$$ and go back there are alot of mature age students at uni

Because that would be harder than going to uni and bitching.

 

[Slidey]

cool . do u know russian? and why did u decide to to go russia/ . i am russian btw

Da, some. I'm not sure. I think it went something like this: "I love Russian, but I wonder what Russia is actually like?" and I did some research and I decided to go through with the idea.

Reasons:
1) Higher quality education
2) Cheaper education
3) Experience another country
4) Learn Russian
5) Be able to appreciate what living the high-life in Australia actually means.

You're Russian, then? Any info?

 

[SashatheMan]

Da, some. I'm not sure. I think it went something like this: "I love Russian, but I wonder what Russia is actually like?" and I did some research and I decided to go through with the idea.

Reasons:
1) Higher quality education
2) Cheaper education
3) Experience another country
4) Learn Russian
5) Be able to appreciate what living the high-life in Australia actually means.

You're Russian, then? Any info?

i am actually geogrgian , but speak russian. but yeh , check it out for yuorself, i havent been there for 10 years, so its very differnt from what i seen it last. but u can get bootleg dvds that havent even come out in cimenas in australia for a few dollars. lol

 

[withoutaface]

Da, some. I'm not sure. I think it went something like this: "I love Russian, but I wonder what Russia is actually like?" and I did some research and I decided to go through with the idea.

Reasons:
1) Higher quality education
2) Cheaper education
3) Experience another country
4) Learn Russian
5) Be able to appreciate what living the high-life in Australia actually means.

You're Russian, then? Any info?

6) Experience elections where anyone who interviews the non Putin candidate and puts it on TV or newspaper disappears strangely...

 

[Slidey]

Won't be happening, Justin. This is Putin's last term... unless he changes the constitution, which he thankfully hasn't indicated any intent of doing.

Unfortunately, of course, the person who replaces him will probably just be a friend of his.