Aboriginal Communities (1 Viewer)

[0bs3n3]

So these Aboriginal communities in the NT and such, as far as I'm aware they have no sustainable industries if at all, and only exist as a result of Federal government pumping money in. If we stopped putting money in they'd collapse (if they haven't already, lol). What benefit does the Commonwealth gain from putting money into these communities?

Also, what do the ancaps and et al think about this? Non-economically viable, should just let the market take affect right?

 

[Will Shakespear]

the jewnited nayshuns makes em do it

 

[kaz1]

They have Uluru tourism mang.

 

[redmayne]

Yeah you idiot, just take away the funding. Let the market do its thing. Which in this case would be an even worse quality of life and disastrous effects.

What a disgusting attitude. It's not about "benefiting [presumably economically is what you mean] the commonwealth". It's about trying to help people who have a crap life. No doubt it's not working very well, but that's because it needs to be administered better. Besides, if successful, bringing people back into gainful employment and education, and out of the poverty cycle is enormously beneficial to a country's economy.

How about you stop trying to be a Bruce Willis macho man and think about things in their human, not economic, value.

 

[SylviaB]

No doubt it's not working very well, but that's because it needs to be administered better.

And how, pray tell, will the benevolent angels hat constitute a future, magically competent government be able to "administer it better"?


and tell me, how does giving people money to not work, incentivise getting a job?

 

[redmayne]

And how, pray tell, will the benevolent angels hat constitute a future, magically competent government be able to "administer it better"?


and tell me, how does giving people money to not work, incentivise getting a job?

Do you know how little you contribute to threads with your libertarian silliness?

You elaborated on my point without even knowing you were, kudos.

Like you said, the money shouldn't be put into welfare, but gradually more towards a better administered education and health system in the communities. The way systems are run can always be improved, surely you can understand that?

Mate, you believe in libertarianism. My benevolent angels aren't half as naive as yours.

 

[loquasagacious]

Do you know how little you contribute to threads with your libertarian silliness?

You elaborated on my point without even knowing you were, kudos.

Like you said, the money shouldn't be put into welfare, but gradually more towards a better administered education and health system in the communities. The way systems are run can always be improved, surely you can understand that?

Mate, you believe in libertarianism. My benevolent angels aren't half as naive as yours.

Education/health/targetted spends/welfare reform don't address the underlying problem though. There are no jobs it doesn't matter what you do there are some places in which there are no jobs.

In the case of Indigenous Australians unless there is a mine or a tourist attraction there are no jobs. So the essential question becomes what do we do?

A) Pay 'sit-down' money
B) Incentivise them to relocate
C) Stop paying welfare/providing services/etc

 

[Yasser Arafat]

Trick question


Aboriginals in ALL areas, remote or not, are shitcunts compared to the national average. Obviously the crux of the problem lies with how Aboriginals as a whole are treated, not the fact that some live in remote NT.

 

[loquasagacious]

Trick question


Aboriginals in ALL areas, remote or not, are shitcunts compared to the national average. Obviously the crux of the problem lies with how Aboriginals as a whole are treated, not the fact that some live in remote NT.

Trick statement.

There are big differences between Indigenous communities in urban, rural and remote areas.

 

[Yasser Arafat]

now what


Remove the stigma the surrounds being an abo. Remove the distinction.

Link welfare to job seeking/education. Becuase lack of education is the main problem imo.

Pay compo to people who were actually adversely affected by previous governmental policy.

Make the cunts attend school and value an education.

 

[Yasser Arafat]

yes there are differences between abos living in Wadeye, those living in Dubbo and those living in Sydney. But they are still on average worse off no matter where they live, compared to the rest of the community.

Therefore remoteness etc has less to do with the problem then you think. Obviously it doesnt help, but it affects all people living in the remote area.

 

[Anonymous-]

who are worse?

aboz or arabz?

 

[loquasagacious]

Link welfare to job seeking/education. Becuase lack of education is the main problem imo.

Make the cunts attend school and value an education.

Indigenous Australians who recieve Newstart allowance are required to meet job search requirements. Seeking work or undertaking training meets this obligation.

CDEP (true sit-down money) is being progressively phased out and is now only found in remote communities.

 

[Yasser Arafat]

abos as they directly affect me

 

[Yasser Arafat]

a lot of them are uneducated and unemployed even in large rural towns. more is needed to be done to make them attend school. so many dark kids wagging school everyday.

 

[Yasser Arafat]

lol omg there is one standing right behind me

 

[redmayne]

Both your first two paragraphs are just wrong. I'm pretty disappointed with that effort tbh.

Education/health/targetted spends/welfare reform don't address the underlying problem though. There are no jobs it doesn't matter what you do there are some places in which there are no jobs.

Education and health contribute to stable communites, and employment in stable Aboriginal communities operates like any other. You almost said that there's no link between education, welfare and jobs there, but that would be unthinkably stupid. So You musn't have.

In the case of Indigenous Australians unless there is a mine or a tourist attraction there are no jobs. So the essential question becomes what do we do?

Wow. Do you know anything about Aborigines? Anything at all? That statement is mindbogglingly stupid.

Thriving Aboriginal communities operate like any other one, including the same jobs. Policemen, rangers, entrepreneurs, farmers, tradies etc. the fact that you think they're somehow fundamentally different in that respect betrays your lack of understanding. Of course mines and tourism bring jobs to an area, but that happens to all communities. But the absence of those things doesn't mean there's no jobs.

The only Aboriginal communities that are doomed to fail are the ones that would do the same if they were all white. That's what the decline of rural and remote centres is all about. In many cases they're becoming obsolete.

 

[loquasagacious]

I think that you misunderstand remote Indigenous communities. While you are correct that they operate like any other community you are incorrect in assuming that this means jobs. For the most part they are simply too small and/or do not produce anything.

There are around 1,200 remote indigenous communities with a population of around 120,000 (30% of the total indigenous pop). So the average size is around 100.

While this is ample population to support hunter-gatherer type existense communities of these sizes are simply too small to support a services industry. There isn't enough work for a doctor or a tradie and not enough customers for a supermarket... and they are so separate that these businesses can't service multiple communities.

So this means that money has to come in from outside - the community has to produce something. Tourism, pastoral leases, mining leases and artwork are examples of this. But because there isn't a mine or a kakadu in every community it isn't enough. Enter welfare.

Welfare of various sorts goes into communities. Housing, health, education, CDEP, etc. And it flows back out in the purchasing of food, clothes, liqour, etc which are not produced in the community. There are no jobs so it is hard to wean communities off this welfare and it has created a culture of entitlement and 'sit-down money'.

Current govt policy does not acknowledge that some communities are not viable in the developed sense of the word. They could be hunter-gatherers but they can not be a developed community.

 

[Graney]

Like you said, the money shouldn't be put into welfare, but gradually more towards a better administered education and health system in the communities. The way systems are run can always be improved, surely you can understand that?

Mate, you believe in libertarianism. My benevolent angels aren't half as naive as yours.

Why pump a disproportionate amount of money per capita into programs for rural communities in health and education, which runs to the detriment of urban communities that need this money and will deliver a higher return per capita, rather than encouraging (or practically enforcing by removal) them to move to urban centres where there is already substantial infrastructure to assist them.

It's a lot cheaper and more efficient to fund programs to improve health and welfare where there is a higher density of people, the government shouldn't be subsidizing communities that can't demonstrate any plan for economic sustainability.

I would say exactly the same thing about all funding to rural communities, subsidies for farmers, the national broadband network etc...

 

[redmayne]

I think that you misunderstand remote Indigenous communities. While you are correct that they operate like any other community you are incorrect in assuming that this means jobs. For the most part they are simply too small and/or do not produce anything.

There are around 1,200 remote indigenous communities with a population of around 120,000 (30% of the total indigenous pop). So the average size is around 100.

While this is ample population to support hunter-gatherer type existense communities of these sizes are simply too small to support a services industry. There isn't enough work for a doctor or a tradie and not enough customers for a supermarket... and they are so separate that these businesses can't service multiple communities.

So this means that money has to come in from outside - the community has to produce something. Tourism, pastoral leases, mining leases and artwork are examples of this. But because there isn't a mine or a kakadu in every community it isn't enough. Enter welfare.

Welfare of various sorts goes into communities. Housing, health, education, CDEP, etc. And it flows back out in the purchasing of food, clothes, liqour, etc which are not produced in the community. There are no jobs so it is hard to wean communities off this welfare and it has created a culture of entitlement and 'sit-down money'.

Current govt policy does not acknowledge that some communities are not viable in the developed sense of the word. They could be hunter-gatherers but they can not be a developed community.

No, very pretty but just no.

I could go on but it's too hot and I'm feeling very lazy.

Have you ever actually been to a remote or rural indigenous community? And if so, both a failed one and a thriving one?