Australia: The Queen and the Republic Debate (2 Viewers)

[Kim Il-Sung]

the poll is not saying should australia become a republic in 2010. i was thinking more like 2030-50.

what difference does it make whether its tomorrow or in 30 years

 

[Existential]

you're an idiot

no they can't

governor general gives royal assent unless the bill says otherwise (and they never do these days)

Australia sovereignty lies in Australia under the current system so what's the problem?

i voted no btw

modern australian culture has nothing to do with royalty.

we are an egalitarian culture ie. multicultural tolerant.

a monarchy contradicts 21st C australia.

 

[Kim Il-Sung]

modern australian culture has nothing to do with royalty.

lol you're appealing to 'modern australian culture' to justify that claim? ffs give me a break

we are an egalitarian culture ie. multicultural tolerant.

ok those are DIFFERENT things first off.

egalitarianism is not incompatible with constitutional monarchy, neither is multiculturalism. we were founded as a nation of the anglosphere and tbh we will remain a nation of the anglosphere whether we become a republic or not. getting rid of the monarchy is not going to magically redefine cultural attitudes in this country and make australia more multicultural. it is not going to stop racism or cure world hunger or make money fall from the sky

a monarchy contradicts 21st C australia.

based on the claims you made so does a republic. looks like we're fucked

 

[Existential]

lol you're appealing to 'modern australian culture' to justify that claim? ffs give me a break

it's not a justification - it's a reality. the death of the queen will impact on monarchist views i promise you.
cultural views differ esp. between the 21st C kids and the ageing pop.

ok those are DIFFERENT things first off.

egalitarianism is not incompatible with constitutional monarchy, neither is multiculturalism. we were founded as a nation of the anglosphere and tbh we will remain a nation of the anglosphere whether we become a republic or not. getting rid of the monarchy is not going to magically redefine cultural attitudes in this country and make australia more multicultural. it is not going to stop racism or cure world hunger or make money fall from the sky

it isn't a question of compatibility - it's effectiveness and making sense. australia has more ties with the US than britain now. monarchists can't keep australia under a mask forever, let alone after the queen dies.

based on the claims you made so does a republic. looks like we're fucked

only if people such as yourselves hold onto the dying monarchist tradition. australia is heading in a republic direction, maybe not this decade, maybe not the next, but in years to come the monarchist side of the debate will die with the queen.

 

[Phoenix Fury]

I'm in favour of it, but in a passive 'really couldn't care less' kind of way.

 

[Existential]

I'm in favour of it, but in a passive 'really couldn't care less' kind of way.

timing is everything. our lifetime will see further change is this area.

 

[evatt]

you're an idiot

no they can't

governor general gives royal assent unless the bill says otherwise (and they never do these days)

Australia sovereignty lies in Australia under the current system so what's the problem?

i voted no btw

and under whose authority does the governor general give his assent dip shit?

precisely my point, were we to have some absolutist, arbitrary sovereign (however unlikely), it is possible for that said sovereign to refuse to provide their assent for the bill. Such an act, would cause socio-political chaos.

Backward looking fucktard.

 

[Slidey]

Such an act, would cause socio-political chaos.

No, such an act would cause the Prime Minister sack the GG. End of story.

Do your research.

The worst thing that would happen even if for some reason the PM couldn't sack the GG in that instance is that the various branches of legislature would simply ignore the GG and probably call an immediate referendum for a Republic, which would be won.

Your scenario is ridiculous. There are many reasons to support a Republic but that isn't really one of them.

 

[Kim Il-Sung]

and under whose authority does the governor general give his assent dip shit?

the australian constitution's actually.

Australian Constitution - Section 58 - Royal assent to Bills & Recommendations by Governor-General
When a proposed law passed by both Houses of the Parliament is presented to the Governor-General for the Queen's assent, he shall declare, according to his discretion, but subject to this Constitution, that he assents in the Queen's name, or that he withholds assent, or that he reserves the law for the Queen's pleasure.

Even if the gg can reserve assent for the queen, thats irrelevant anyway since convention has been for many many years never to reserve bills for the queen's assent, and EVEN if they did reserve it, the last time a monarch refused to assent to a bill was oh, only about a century ago.

Far fucking out, what does the doctrine of convention, that pretty much our whole constitutional system is founded upon, mean to you anyway?

Just because something isn't expressly codified (which is very difficult anyway due to the fallibility of language), doesn't mean that it isn't adhered to or upheld. seriously, you should read the constitution one of these days and you'll get what i mean.

precisely my point, were we to have some absolutist, arbitrary sovereign (however unlikely), it is possible for that said sovereign to refuse to provide their assent for the bill. Such an act, would cause socio-political chaos.

Yeah which is why the monarch would never ever do it do it you ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARD

like, they actually have an incentive to make everyone go apeshit, amirite?

 

[Kim Il-Sung]

No, such an act would cause the Prime Minister sack the GG. End of story.

Now THAT would cause socio-political chaos given that executive power lies in the GG under the constitution.

So basically if the gvt ever did that it's the job of the ADF to align with the GG against the government

But these sorts of things do not happen because everyone is aware of the ramifications

oh hey presto, we have institutional stability

 

[aussie-boy]

modern australian culture has nothing to do with royalty.

we are an egalitarian culture ie. multicultural tolerant.

a monarchy contradicts 21st C australia.

So basically fuck the fact that Australia's legal system, extremely high quality of life rankings, and famed social conventions (egalitarianism, not being too serious etc) are all direct results of strong European foundations?

Remaining a constitutional monarchy reminds every Australian that what we enjoy here is a direct result of the labours of previous Australians.

This especially applies to the children of migrants who seem to take our incredible society for granted and don't think twice when passively and unknowingly attempting to turn parts of Australia into their home country.

 

[b00m]

as long as we get to keep the public holiday, wateva

 

[super.muppy]

as long as we get to keep the public holiday, wateva

+1

 

[cem]

Even if the gg can reserve assent for the queen, thats irrelevant anyway since convention has been for many many years never to reserve bills for the queen's assent, and EVEN if they did reserve it, the last time a monarch refused to assent to a bill was oh, only about a century ago.

More like 300 years ago. The last time a monarch refused to sign legislation was Queen Anne in 1707.

 

[xMaNx]

+1

+2

I love the queen, one free holiday a year.

Also We should have a republic

 

[Kim Il-Sung]

More like 300 years ago. The last time a monarch refused to sign legislation was Queen Anne in 1707.

I know but apparently an Australian bill was refused sovereign assent in 1906, can't remember what it was called.

 

[cem]

Yea but then we cant rip up the commonwealth games cuz we wouldnt be in the commmonwealth anymore (i think thats the rule right....)

We would have to be approved as a continuing member of the Commonwealth, and there is no indication that we would be removed by the other members. No country that has become a republic has not been admitted to the Commonwealth simply for removing the British monarch as their Head of State. If only countries that had the Queen as the Head of State were in the Commonwealth there would only be 16 countries. The vast majority of members were part of the old British Empire but are now republics.

 

[SylviaB]

Remaining a constitutional monarchy reminds every Australian that what we enjoy here is a direct result of the labours of previous Australians.

ugh

 

[Chrissiieee]

For teh empreror

 

[Existential]

So basically fuck the fact that Australia's legal system, extremely high quality of life rankings, and famed social conventions (egalitarianism, not being too serious etc) are all direct results of strong European foundations?

so as soon as we become a republic (which we will, it is inevitable) all of those qualities will go "poof" and disappear? NO THEY WON'T!

.... perhaps you should re-read your comments before you post them to avoid such fail of argument.