Democrats to give prefs to Family First Party (2 Viewers)

[thorrnydevil]

Yes, there is absolutely no place in Australian politics for religion...bah...not all Liberals are Christians Asquithian, as much as you'd like to think so.

 

[ellymelly]

you may be shocked to find that abbot anderson and costello are pretty ardent christians on the front bench...

so thats the PM the deputy and the treasuer...kevin rudd is also religious...there is a bible reading on mondays nights when parliament is in

This is suprising and bad how?

 

[dangerousdave]

Yes, religion shouldnt mix with politics, but theres nothing wrong with politicians being religious. I have no problem with the fact that "the PM the deputy PM are ardent christians"

 

[ellymelly]

most of us agree that religion should not mix with politics

the treasurer...the PM the deputy PM are ardent christians...


ill alos add ms bishop to the list (im not sure ifs shes on the front bench anymore)

i don't know if you have noticed this but the morals and ethics upon which a society is run is (whether you like it or not) a direct result of the religious faith of the western world. without religion is some way or shape in society, (i'm not saying you must have it personally) would society have a moral conscience as we know it today? are you ethics linked to your religion or at least religious principals in some way shape of form?

 

[ellymelly]

i meant to add, "in this country"

 

[ellymelly]

i don't know if you have noticed this but the morals and ethics upon which a society is run is (whether you like it or not) a direct result of the religious faith of the western world. without religion in some way or shape in society, (i'm not saying you must have it personally) would society have a moral conscience as we know it today? are your ethics linked to your religion or at least religious principals in some way shape of form?

sorry, i typed that badly.

 

[ellymelly]

yes morals and relgion are mixed but parliament doesnt or is not meant to make laws based on the politicians private religious morality

but my argument is that you can't seperate most of it because it underpins our society

 

[Kwayera]

i don't know if you have noticed this but the morals and ethics upon which a society is run is (whether you like it or not) a direct result of the religious faith of the western world. without religion is some way or shape in society, (i'm not saying you must have it personally) would society have a moral conscience as we know it today? are you ethics linked to your religion or at least religious principals in some way shape of form?

No, my ethics/morals are not linked to religion. They're derived from what I learned when I was very young - what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. My family isn't religious, so I didn't learn it there. It's simply a result of sentience, mostly, I think.

However, I can agree that in the past, religion has helped shape the 'rightful' (although sometimes doubtful) laws of society (some of which have been very bad, mind you) and morality. Indeed, today they support society's morals and ethics - but we no longer need religion in politics to represent what is right and wrong. It's too deeply ingrained in our culture; no further interpretations or devolutions of religion are needed or wanted in law-making and decisions that factor running of a country and serving it's people.

 

[ellymelly]

it doesnt you allow it to continue to dominate decision making...the world has moved on

has it? interesting question.

 

[ellymelly]

has it? interesting question.

more interestingly, will it?

 

[ellymelly]

it should have...something called the enlightenment...

i don't think you gave any real thought to the question

 

[iambored]

i don't know if you have noticed this but the morals and ethics upon which a society is run is (whether you like it or not) a direct result of the religious faith of the western world. without religion is some way or shape in society, (i'm not saying you must have it personally) would society have a moral conscience as we know it today? are you ethics linked to your religion or at least religious principals in some way shape of form?

yeah that is actually true.

it's hard to separate religion and politics because people disagree on what are basic morals and what is from a religious perspective. for example the abortion issue, you could say the libs are against it because they are (i have been told on here) religious. other non-religious people may be against it because it's morally wrong for them. which of our morals originated from religion and which didn't? i personally don't think being against abortion is a religious stance.


i should add that i don't think the liberals base their policies or whatever on christian values

labour's values are actually more inherently christian.

 

[thorrnydevil]

I was about to write heaps but then I saw iambored started what I wanted to write..
Most of the morals which most (if not all) of australian society hold are similar to the morals which are taught by christianity... I have no problem with this.

Yes, unfortunately our societies values are heavily christianised. Personally, I have no problems with the religious beliefs of politicians or other people. If they need to feel insecure and need to have some stupid god to believe in then good on them. There is just absolutely no place in Australian politics for religion. A church who takes gold and locks it away while its people starve...not good.

 

[iambored]

yeah the irony is that LAP policy is more 'traditional christian'...however christians tend to vote Liberal or republican in the US...

i never knew 'god' endorsed rampant idividualism and economic rationalism at the expense of basics for all

neo conservative christians who vote liberal disturb me...then again a good point was made by one of my lecturers who felt that people go to massive chruches like hillsong for economic sucess...that if god is on their side they will be sucessful and earn lots of money...

so, i'm just wondering - you're against liberal because of their policies, obviously. but why do you keep bringing up that some of the liberals are christian if you agree the labor policies are more traditionally christian? i just had the impression an extra reason you were against liberal was because they are (apparently) religious.

 

[loquasagacious]

I agree politics are inextricably linked. Well the word politics is a misnomer, personal beliefs/value system is inextricably linked with politics.

In that aetheists are as much influenced by their value system as christians.

However to clarify my position I am strongly opposed to the official overt linking of chuch and state eg head of state is head of church, archbishop or primate rings up an dictates policy or church groups get special preferance in handing out money.

Also I oppose the reactionary policies espoused by the christian right.

There was an interesting show on SBS a week or so ago about the rise of the christian-right in the US.

 

[eviltama]

up until this i prolly would have voted libs because latham is... a jack ass. But with this loverly little union happening, it seems my vote becomes worthless. Can't vote any major or minor well known and more publicised party because they're all linked in with libs and labour i mean obviously and none of the little parties make any difference anywhere.

So what does one do when you become one of the forgotten masses of society. *ponders*

 

[thorrnydevil]

up until this i prolly would have voted libs because latham is... a jack ass. But with this loverly little union happening, it seems my vote becomes worthless. Can't vote any major or minor well known and more publicised party because they're all linked in with libs and labour i mean obviously and none of the little parties make any difference anywhere.

So what does one do when you become one of the forgotten masses of society. *ponders*

Your vote is never worthless...use it, don't waste it.

 

[eviltama]

Your vote is never worthless...use it, don't waste it.

the only votes that count are the ones that decide if its libs or labour that get in. otherwise your vote falls through the cracks or it gets thrown into the pool of ignorance for each various party and their prefs.

 

[thorrnydevil]

the only votes that count are the ones that decide if its libs or labour that get in. otherwise your vote falls through the cracks or it gets thrown into the pool of ignorance for each various party and their prefs.

Yeah, and? Your vote isn't worthless. Don't be a fuck head and donkey vote, but you probably will anyway.

 

[thorrnydevil]

direct democracy is dead...

But the point is you can still vote for who you would like to get into power, nobody said anything about democracy being alive.