Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[KFunk]

I want to do my living now, thanks. I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of never having lived.

Word. <-- Le Profundity

 

[Kwayera]

What the author quotes in the end is also poignant:

A quote attributed to Stephen F. Robert sums it up for me: "We are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

 

[Ennaybur]

love that quote

 

[Will Shakespear]

The fusion of wild youth and religious rapture is a complicated reality. A complicated reality I assume was responsible for the GOD ROCKS! graffiti I saw on an old stone church yesterday.

Best example was the meat head shouting CATHOLICISM!!! after he got arrested for hitting one of the gay protestors, lol

 

[Enteebee]

I want to do my living now, thanks. I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of never having lived.

this person's full of shit, they are afraid of dying. You could 'LIVE LIFE TO THE MAX' all you want but I think unless you suffered a serious illness or whatever you'd always want more, it's hardwired into us to want to live.

 

[Enteebee]

It's more about not being afraid of going when you know it's your time to go. It's just like I find the concept of immortality to be abhorrent because it's a total removal of agency.

"When you know it's your time to go" ? They will either a) Never think it's their time to go or b) Suffer some sort of painful illness from which they see no other respite. Immortality can be conceptually manifested in so many ways (though I admit it seems impossible, I figure we're moving into fantasy-world land where I can basically conceive of almost any silly idea).

 

[Kwayera]

this person's full of shit, they are afraid of dying. You could 'LIVE LIFE TO THE MAX' all you want but I think unless you suffered a serious illness or whatever you'd always want more, it's hardwired into us to want to live.

I'm not afraid of dying.


I don't especially WANT to, but I am not afraid of it.

 

[Enteebee]

I'm not afraid of dying.


I don't especially WANT to, but I am not afraid of it.

I refuse to believe that upon receiving notice of say... terminal, untreatable cancer you wouldn't be afraid. That as your wheeled into the surgery room for some extremely risky surgery that you wouldn't be afraid. What are you afraid of? Death... the unknown...

 

[Kwayera]

There isn't an unknown. Death is DEATH, and there is nothing after, no unknown to fear.

If I'd been the one to receive that letter, terminal cancer or whatever, then no, I don't think I would be afraid. Devestated, but not afraid. What have I do be afraid of? The certainty of death? That, I think, would even be comforting.

 

[Enteebee]

Devastated and you wouldn't want it to happen? That's pretty much the definition of fear. To have a fear isn't to have an anxiety, which is perhaps what you're thinking of. I'm afraid of losing everything I have in this world, I want to keep it... I don't want to stop experiencing life. I can definitely accept that it's true that it will and come to terms with my fear/issue but this doesn't mean I'm not afraid with it, just that I've managed it.

Would you be afraid for say... your mum if she went in for surgery, would you fear for her safety? Would you hope she doesn't die?

 

[Will Shakespear]

And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime.

 

[Enteebee]

nihilistic arguments for not fearing death don't exactly work for me... I value life so I fear losing it.

 

[Kwayera]

Devastated and you wouldn't want it to happen? That's pretty much the definition of fear. To have a fear isn't to have an anxiety, which is perhaps what you're thinking of. I'm afraid of losing everything I have in this world, I want to keep it... I don't want to stop experiencing life. I can definitely accept that it's true that it will and come to terms with my fear/issue but this doesn't mean I'm not afraid with it, just that I've managed it.

Would you be afraid for say... your mum if she went in for surgery, would you fear for her safety? Would you hope she doesn't die?

That's not what fear is at all, at least not for me. If it was my mother, yes, I would be afraid if her life was at risk - but that would be fear for HER, not for myself. I'm not lying when I say I don't fear death; the fact that I don't want to die right now doesn't mean I won't be ready to when the time comes.

Hoping someone doesn't die, the fact that you'd miss them terribly if they did, is not the same as being afraid of your own death. Death is a certainty for us all. I don't think there's anything more absurd than to be afraid of it, as if that would prevent it from happening.. at least, that's how I feel.

 

[Enteebee]

That's not what fear is at all, at least not for me.

What is fear?

If it was my mother, yes, I would be afraid if her life was at risk - but that would be fear for HER, not for myself.

Fear for her death... Why? It is a certainty, like your own.

I'm not lying when I say I don't fear death; the fact that I don't want to die right now doesn't mean I won't be ready to when the time comes.

The time's tomorrow - are you ready?

I don't think there's anything more absurd than to be afraid of it, as if that would prevent it from happening.. at least, that's how I feel.

Death is a certainty for your mother. I don't think there's anything more absurd than to be afraid of it, as if that would prevent it from happening..

 

[Kwayera]

What is fear?

I'll cheat and quote wikipedia, as their definition is close to mine.

Fear is an emotional response to threats and danger. Fear should be distinguished from anxiety, which typically occurs without any external threat. Additionally, fear is related to the specific behaviors of escape and avoidance, whereas anxiety is the result of threats that are perceived to be uncontrollable or unavoidable.

Fear for her death... Why? It is a certainty, like your own.

Yes, of course it's a certainty, but I'm the one who has to live without her. I'll have all my years to live without her, but she'd be dead. She wouldn't know, or care. Fearing for her death would be an emotional "defence" (irrational though it may be) against the pain that comes after it.

The time's tomorrow - are you ready?

Apart from abstract needs to accomplish things before I die - see the stars, climb Everest, touch a whale, that sort of thing - pretty much, yeah.

Death is a certainty for your mother. I don't think there's anything more absurd than to be afraid of it, as if that would prevent it from happening..

And?

 

[Enteebee]

I'll cheat and quote wikipedia, as their definition is close to mine.

Fear is an emotional response to threats and danger. Fear should be distinguished from anxiety, which typically occurs without any external threat. Additionally, fear is related to the specific behaviors of escape and avoidance, whereas anxiety is the result of threats that are perceived to be uncontrollable or unavoidable.

You don't want it to happen and you think it would be devastating... seems to fit that to me. I don't think you're necessarily anxious about death (though I think it lays dorment in you) but I do think faced with situations which could directly lead to death i.e. terminal illness, falling off a cliff etc... you would be afraid.

Yes, of course it's a certainty, but I'm the one who has to live without her. I'll have all my years to live without her, but she'd be dead. She wouldn't know, or care. Fearing for her death would be an emotional "defence" (irrational though it may be) against the pain that comes after it.

Well you seemed to think certainty was reason enough not to fear something, now you've introduced that certainty isn't enough it also has to be something you won't have to deal with the effects of (obviously you won't have to deal with the effects of your own death).

Apart from abstract needs to accomplish things before I die - see the stars, climb Everest, touch a whale, that sort of thing - pretty much, yeah.

Do you fear being denied the opportunity to do those things... by death?

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Tbh I think fear of death is one of the basic forces at work in human society, moreso the attempts to cover-up our fear and convince ourselves that there's nothing to worry about.


To me if you value living highly then you should fear losing your life (I would equate that with death). It's like if you value your money... you fear losing your wallet. If you value someone you love, you fear losing them. If you value your tribes native lands, you fear losing them. If you value your job, you fear getting fired...

I can't think of anything I value that I don't fear losing, certainly I can cope with it (perhaps by supplementing that it's still ok because there's other joys in my life) but I value life particularly highly.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I'm pretty sure if I was faced with my imminent death (like a car accident or something) that I'd be scared based on the fact that I enjoy living and would like to do more of it. I wouldn't actually be scared of dying, I'd be scared/unwilling to stop living, if the distinction between the two makes sense to anyone but me Because death is inevitable, but by the same token that doesn't mean that the prospect of it happening this afternoon should be something you face calmly. Maybe if you have more time to accept it, idk.

 

[Enteebee]

I wouldn't actually be scared of dying, I'd be scared/unwilling to stop living, if the distinction between the two makes sense to anyone but me

See to me I don't see death as anything other than the lack of life so while I did acknowledge in my post perhaps that other people might not equate a lack of life with death, I personally can't see any actual reasons why they cannot.

 

[Slidey]

I'm pretty sure if I was faced with my imminent death (like a car accident or something) that I'd be scared based on the fact that I enjoy living and would like to do more of it. I wouldn't actually be scared of dying, I'd be scared/unwilling to stop living, if the distinction between the two makes sense to anyone but me Because death is inevitable, but by the same token that doesn't mean that the prospect of it happening this afternoon should be something you face calmly. Maybe if you have more time to accept it, idk.

Yeah. Personally death isn't a problem. It's not living that's a problem. It's all about potential: I want to chase my dreams and such. Namely, travel the world and start a family. Probably in that order. But I don't really care about being dead; I'd be dead, it wouldn't matter.

So basically it wouldn't matter when I died, but due to some romantic notion of potential, I'd prefer it to be later rather than sooner.

 

[Enteebee]

Yeah. Personally death isn't a problem. It's not living that's a problem. It's all about potential: I want to chase my dreams and such. Namely, travel the world and start a family. Probably in that order. But I don't really care about being dead; I'd be dead, it wouldn't matter.

So basically it wouldn't matter when I died, but due to some romantic notion of potential, I'd prefer it to be later rather than sooner.

What is death if it isn't a lack of living? I can't explain it as anything else. So... if not living is the problem, the problem is death. I've heard similar views expressed a few times and I'm trying to work out exactly what it is people are trying to get around, what the issue is with death being a problem, tbh I don't get it yet.