Does God exist? (3 Viewers)

[moll.]

However you cannot disprove God either. Rather my belief comes from the conviction that God is there, in other words faith. To be honest with all of you people, i once disbelieved, scoffed and felt skeptic, infact even hatred towards Christianity. However over periods of time, i was transformed in my Lord, God, Christ.

One cannot truly explain this except catagorising this as God's grace. Ultimately we, as theists cannot fully prove that God exists. We, and i think i share this conviction with many of my fellow Christians on this board, that hope is the only light which we possess for your salvation.

As most of us are humanists, we atheists also have hope. believe it or not. But ours is simply a more worldly ideal. We hope for peace, for freedom and for happiness in the world. We recognise that this goal is beyond reach within our lifetimes, and even within the lives of our children. But our hope remains that or descendants will be able to live in a better world thanks to our efforts to make it come about.

That only through God's grace you may believe and be saved.

Saved from what?

For this God, which many of you disbelive with such strong ardour,i must remind you is omnipotent, that logically speaking, He owes you nothing. And if one takes nothing away from this slab of persoanl conviction, please take away this, that salvation is only through Grace and nothing else.

And I owe him nothing.

 

[Lukybear]

As most of us are humanists, we atheists also have hope. believe it or not. But ours is simply a more worldly ideal. We hope for peace, for freedom and for happiness in the world. We recognise that this goal is beyond reach within our lifetimes, and even within the lives of our children. But our hope remains that or descendants will be able to live in a better world thanks to our efforts to make it come about.

I dont doubt that. But human nature is a powerful thing, one cannot just overcome our sinnful nature through a few generations. Only through God.

Saved from what?

Sin? What else?

And I owe him nothing.

Ok, for the sake of arguement, say for you, God exists (ofcourse He does). Dont you owe Him, as you are His Creation? That you are living in a world created by Him? That everything is His, and that you are only living in this world, even tho you are so imperfect, because of His Grace?

For I owe him everything.

 

[moll.]

I dont doubt that. But human nature is a powerful thing, one cannot just overcome our sinnful nature through a few generations. Only through God.

No.
Only through self-control and education. Societies which revolve around god are not sinless. So does this not speak for itself and show you that belief in God does not eradicate sin?
I'm up for an alternative, no matter how difficult, cos obviously the theistic system isn't working too well.

Sin? What else?

Many of the things that your God and church decree as sinful i deem natural and even beneficial to myself and those around me. So how can God save me from sin when my idea of sin is different to your own. Were He to eradicate sin according to each man's personal belief as to what sin is, it would lead to such plurality in society that little would change from the current world.
The only other option is to force all of humanity to regard sin in the exact same way, which would take away our freewill and enslave us to the one idea. That sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.

Ok, for the sake of arguement, say for you, God exists (ofcourse He does). Dont you owe Him, as you are His Creation? That you are living in a world created by Him? That everything is His, and that you are only living in this world, even tho you are so imperfect, because of His Grace?

For I owe him everything.

He created me. I did not ask to be created. He therefore has responsibility for my wellbeing, and the wellbeing of my brothers and sisters, to whom he is failing miserably.

 

[tommykins]

Lol by your logic Luky - he merely created us to we can worship him - insecurity issue?

 

[Silver Persian]

God totally has a Messiah complex

 

[moll.]

God totally has a Messiah complex

I lol'd.

 

[LingstyleZ]

different people have different beliefs, we all know that the 8handed elaphant isnt real

but for the people who believes in it says its real.

its same with god.

christians believe god exists
but people outside of the bubble says god doesnt exist.

science proves that god isnt real
but ppl still believe it does.

so theres really no answer to this question

 

[CyanideChrist]

but for the people who believes in it says its real.

That doesn't make it real.

science proves that god isnt real

No, it doesn't.

 

[LingstyleZ]

no shit it doesnt make it real.

im saying diff ppl believe in diff things
no matter wat u say to dem.

 

[nikolas]

no shit it doesnt make it real.

im saying diff ppl believe in diff things
no matter wat u say to dem.

k

 

[alexmartinek]

i know an incredibly enthusiastic teacher who can talk for the rest of his life on that question alone

 

[georgefren]

Seriously people. You cannot prove God's existence. Neither can you disprove it. Not because it exists/doesnt exist. But because it is impossible for there to be direct evidence one way or another. You either have faith or you don't. That's it. Stop arguing!

 

[nikolas]

Thank you "why can't we just get along" poster #141136

 

[Will Shakespear]

Seriously people. You cannot prove God's existence. Neither can you disprove it. Not because it exists/doesnt exist. But because it is impossible for there to be direct evidence one way or another. You either have faith or you don't. That's it. Stop arguing!

so it's not important to be able to give reasons for what you believe?

 

[Lukybear]

Seriously people. You cannot prove God's existence. Neither can you disprove it. Not because it exists/doesnt exist. But because it is impossible for there to be direct evidence one way or another. You either have faith or you don't. That's it. Stop arguing!

Thats what ive been saying for a heaps long time.

But then however, this thread will go blank...

 

[Lukybear]

so it's not important to be able to give reasons for what you believe?

Should it be? Why should we justify our personal choices to you? Do you justify yours to us?

But thesits do give reason... salvation and an everlasting life are perhaps a few.

 

[tommykins]

Should it be? Why should we justify our personal choices to you? Do you justify yours to us?

But thesits do give reason... salvation and an everlasting life are perhaps a few.

.....We have been justifying ours to you for the whole bloody thread.

There is no conclusive proof that doesn't rely on blind faith, and hence is not a convincing stance to take that God exists.

Your reasoning (a logical fallacy at that) once again brings up Pascal's Wager.

inb4 'but u cnt uze lawgikz wif gawdd'

PS. Rnadom question, if God existed and he said if you believed in him you'd be tortured for eternity whereas non-believers would be praised, would you still believe in him?

 

[Will Shakespear]

Should it be? Why should we justify our personal choices to you? Do you justify yours to us?

But thesits do give reason... salvation and an everlasting life are perhaps a few.

well if you have good reasons to believe something is true, in theory you should be able to explain them to someone, and then they should see that you must be right and accept that it's true

or at least accept that it's plausible

you're claiming to know things that you've got to admit you couldn't possibly know

not just that god exists, but also what he's like, what he thinks and what he wants us to do

so you're gonna need some pretty great reasons if you want to be taken seriously

in reality i think theists' main reason for believing is actually "because lots of other people do"

i mean, if you believed in unicorns, and there's as much physical evidence for unicorns as god, you couldn't sustain that belief because no one would back you up on it (or sing about it with you on a sunday morning)

 

[Graney]

Should it be? Why should we justify our personal choices to you? Do you justify yours to us?

Yes. I'm happy to justify at length anything I say online, and would say exactly the same thing in person.

If you're going to refuse to elaborate on and justify your personal choices with us there's a simple solution- don't share them with us in the first place. If you're going to play willfully ignorant and refuse to justify your ideas, you're not wanted in this discussion.

 

[Lukybear]

^^But i did justify mine to you. No? If you read a couple of sentences further.