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Does God exist? (6 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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And I'll just re-post this as it has not been addressed

Well that is clever, but in a practical sense, we ARE all rational beings capable of cognition or knowledge and the only laws we have and understand are the ones that exist...not the ones that dont. But anyway, it is not the law in itself that is remarkable, but the fact that it is so constant and consistant. It is more to do with the nature of laws in general rather than laws themselves I think...why are laws laws anyway? What forces them to act so "mathematically"? What forces them to function in the predicatble way that only laws can?

I mean we may not be able fully appreciate any other laws other than the ones which exist, but then how exactly does a law exist without it having any practical application in the real world. But regardless, the point I think, was that there is no reason why nature should be consistant and "mathematical" in nature and that the fact that it is quite a miracle in itself.</SPAN>
What awfully deformed brain structure managed to compile such a distressed blob of thought? Please, sir, before you decicide defecate on our discussions, please unscamble your word jumbles and mind mashes, take a pen and paper and recite a thousand times 'it is not up to muddle minds like myself to decide questions of such'.
 

SeCKSiiMiNh

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My point is not about abilities in general, just the ability to reason and act ethically
You say that, yet, the pages of our history is splattered with blood shed by our own hands.

Yes, I agree that most of human kind are "ethical", but, when you take into account the insurmountable instances of war, terrorism, disrespect for the environment, racism, slavery, genocide.. the list goes on and on. Over 17000 people have been killed by muslim extremists. About 1 million people killed in the rwandan genocide. Millions of native americans were killed by european newcomers. Millions of aborignals were killed/massacred by the british. And that is just barely the tip of the iceberg

I mean, god (if he does exist), chose to cleanse our world by means of a flood. That, in my opinion, is not a reasoned and ethical decision is it?.
 

philphie

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I believe in the universe and the possibilites that almost anything could exist, including God. If God, Buddha, whatever exists i won't deny their existence. I just believe there is a higher power out there that i have no understanding of, and that i should never have understanding of, that's why i'm agnostic, plus i'm indecisive and like a good mystery
 

SeCKSiiMiNh

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I believe in the universe and the possibilites that almost anything could exist, including God. If God, Buddha, whatever exists i won't deny their existence. I just believe there is a higher power out there that i have no understanding of, and that i should never have understanding of, that's why i'm agnostic, plus i'm indecisive and like a good mystery
Higher Power = Mother Nature :D
 

trickx

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Elements, seem etcetcetc....im not disputing that they may have behaviour which may "seem" to mimick that which is moral and the arguments regarding this are contentious...however the fact is that no other species has the SAME capacity for moral and ethical decision making in comparison to humans. The reasons for this are arbitrary...I believe it was God's plan for humans to be masters of His creation and this is a POV that you dont even need to be religious (the masters of nature part) to agree with.

And as Kant has been raised, didnt he say that it is very much our "personhood" that puts us above animals.

"The fact that the human being can have the representation "I" raises him infinitely above all the other beings on earth. By this he is a person....that is, a being altogether different in rank and dignity from things, such as irrational animals, with which one may deal and dispose at one's discretion. "(Kant, LA, 7, 127)

There is nothing insulting, rather it is somewhat relieving I think, to know that my morals and morals are the result of a perfect Being's plan....and not just the resultof some random evolutionary process.
"We are unique, therefore it must be a divine plan"? That's essentially your argument. Yes, we do have a far greater capacity for moral reasoning, which from a Darwinian explanation, has evoloved from our developed consciousness and brain formation. Our morality is a part of us, just like our instinct and consciousness. To explain our morality by resorting to the supernatual has not advanced the discussion by one inch.

Yes, Kant did say that. I really do admire Kant. But on what he speculates on the human condition none has ever addressed the direct impact of Darwin's theory. Most of the great philosophers in fact lived in pre-Darwinian time. None of them could consider the theory of evolution since it had not been proposed, tested and confirmed as it has been for the last 150 years. There is a direct link to our evolved morality and the doctrine of sin and I really do think evolution completely dismisses it, and therefore the very purpose of Christ.
 

0bs3n3

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You say that, yet, the pages of our history is splattered with blood shed by our own hands.
If your speaking of the Crusades, then you need to understand that the vast majority of the peasants who faught during the Crusades could not read. They could not read the Bible so how could they claim to be fighting for it? They followed what the Church told them. The Church often mixed up religion and politics.

I'm not saying this to justify the Crusades, either.
 

Lukybear

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"We are unique, therefore it must be a divine plan"? That's essentially your argument. Yes, we do have a far greater capacity for moral reasoning, which from a Darwinian explanation, has evoloved from our developed consciousness and brain formation. Our morality is a part of us, just like our instinct and consciousness. To explain our morality by resorting to the supernatual has not advanced the discussion by one inch.
Must we explain our consciousness on Darwin's theory? One cannot say that these set of laws, universally embraced by all humans in the form of the conscience can be simply explained away by Natural Selection.

Firstly the fact that this morality + ethics are universal in all humans, ranging from pre-historic cultures to the contemporary world is startling. Our conscience has evolved from vastly differring environments, both culturally and physically different. This in itself defys Darwin's explanation, as the environments of a species differ therefore the another species should be formed.

Moreover, Darwin's theory should not be applied in social circumstances. His theory for natural selection was developed for the "unconscious" so to speak. In our society, the crippled is not left to die on the streets. And there are terrible effects stemming from the social application of Darwinism, i.e. Hitler's Facism, where the blue eyed blondes were nominated to overpower world. Humanity's consciousness is unique, and trascends beyond Darwin's theory, and arguably science in itself.

The second thing we must ask ourselves is this, why does this system of morality exists within our conscience. Why must we perserve human life, pretaining to those laws within our mind? Lets take the example of being unselfish. As C.S Lewis once answered in his book Mere Christianity, 'Because it is good for society,'. But he continued to question, 'Why should I care what's good for society except when it happens to pay me personally?' The answer to that is 'Because you ought to be unselfish'. The result is a everlasting chain of truths, that does not answer our question.

So from my perspective, I find that the existence of a conscience, if you like a set of "Moral Laws" as Lewis puts it is ever against rationality. And it leads to the conclusion for me, that there exist a God.

However, I am happy for those to refute my claims.
 
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ClockworkSoldier

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Simply...

No-one can prove or disprove the existence of god, but faith in god exists. Religion's worked itself into a comfy corner.

Atheists are egotistical and often arrogant. Science supports them.

XD.
 

Lukybear

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I would rather be a descendant of two apes then a man that lives in ignorance.
I rather be human, stemming from Adam and Eve, being saved by Christ's blood rather than a descendant of two apes living in sinfulness and eventually descending to hell.
 

shuttle_bus5

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I rather be human, stemming from Adam and Eve, being saved by Christ's blood rather than a descendant of two apes living in sinfulness and eventually descending to hell.
So in other words you would be the ignorant man?
I don't believe in hell. Saying i will go to hell carries as much meaning as me saying the purple invisible unicorn will float around and burn your bible with a wooden spoon.
It means nothing to me.
 

John McCain

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I rather be human, stemming from Adam and Eve, being saved by Christ's blood rather than a descendant of two apes living in sinfulness and eventually descending to hell.
Humans are apes in every sense. You are an ape.
 

ClockworkSoldier

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I rather be human, stemming from Adam and Eve, being saved by Christ's blood rather than a descendant of two apes living in sinfulness and eventually descending to hell.
One thing.

If you are the descendant of two apes, one would assume that the theory of evolution is undoubtably true... Therefore theoretically, hell doesn't exist.
 

ClockworkSoldier

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6 billion people stemming from adam and eve? please...

and i really don't understand the bit about "jesus dying for our sins". Why did he have to die?
Adam and Eve would have had to have been extremely busy... And a lot of incest came after them...

In simple terms, Jesus sacrificed himself to cleanse humanity of their sins... He did it for all who wouldn't believe.
 

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