Does God exist? (9 Viewers)

[chockie]

Christians - maybe I don't understand this - why was Jesus's blood needed to wash away the sins of the world?

Couldn't God just have sent Jesus down and let him die at a ripe old age, and just written the previous sins off, without needing bloodshed?

It might have been more effective in the short term, but would Jesus have been such a hit if he hadn't been a martyr?

In the Old Testament, priests sacrificed lambs to atone for their people's sins. Because God is perfect, any sin against him must be punished. The idea was that a lamb's blood would be shed and God would accept this as a sufficient atonement. This practice stopped after Jesus died. As the perfect and innocent son of God, his death was considered sufficient punishment for all sins, past present and future. That's why he's sometimes referred to as the 'lamb of God'.

The whole point of the Christian faith is based on this idea - that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins means people are able to be perfect in God's eyes, through believing in what Jesus did.

 

[veterandoggy]

question to muslims about jesus - you guys say jesus was a prophet, correct? but what about when jesus said he was the son of god? do you think that jesus was simply mistaken about this, or that he was lying or...

look, ill tell you what. you find the verse that says that and ill find the verse in which he says "on my own authority i can do nothing"

whoops! i hope i was mistaken, because if this verse exists it might imply that he had to get permission to perform his miracles, and is in fact under the power of a more supreme being, which would support our argument that he was a prophet and not a god.

btw there are many verses which are similar in this regard, and there are a few debates between ahmad deedat (may allah be pleased with him) and jimmy swaggart (hope i spelt his name correct). plus ahmad deedat has made many debates against other evangelists/preists, but i think this one was the one that had the most attention.

 

[malkin86]

In the Old Testament, priests sacrificed lambs to atone for their people's sins. Because God is perfect, any sin against him must be punished. The idea was that a lamb's blood would be shed and God would accept this as a sufficient atonement. This practice stopped after Jesus died. As the perfect and innocent son of God, his death was considered sufficient punishment for all sins, past present and future. That's why he's sometimes referred to as the 'lamb of God'.

The whole point of the Christian faith is based on this idea - that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins means people are able to be perfect in God's eyes, through believing in what Jesus did.

Why does God need blood?

 

[Generator]

Unless you're prepared to deny that a man named Jesus ever existed, then you have to at least consider the claims he made.

With that in mind, I would hope that you too would consider the statements of one who claims to have been abucted by Alf's cousins from Melmac for a weekend trip to the planet Vulcan. Of course, as with those who doubt the veracity of the bible (and other religious texts), you are free to disregard such statements as being fanciful after a period of some consideration.

 

[brickwall]

Why does God need blood?

hasnt it got something to do with cleansing...?

 

[Wilmo]

Why does God need blood?

Because blood symbolises life. If you have no blood in you, you have no life in you. When Cain killed Able in Genesis... God said that Ables blood was crying out to him. This was showing the seriousness of spilling the blood of an innocent. It cries out to God and he seeks retribution.

The blood of an animal would be used as a "sin offering". The blood would symbolise that something pure and innocent has died on behalf of the sinful person. Thus the blame and judgement of God rested on the animal.

It was used ritually by the jews in a lot of their temple worship. And every year a goat would be sacrificed (a scape goat) and the blood would be sprinkled on the people to wash them of their sins with it's blood.

This basically meant that the blood sprinkled on them was the life, and the innocence of the animal as well as a reminder that the goat has taken the punishment they deserve. But being an animal, the effect of taking Gods wrath was not something permanant.



With Jesus, his blood was pure and unblemished. And to be washed in his blood means that you have been given his life. You have been made pure and he has taken the punishment you deserve.

The reason Christians do not sacrifice anymore is because Jesus was a person... and as a person was a "scape goat" for as long as people live (the life of an animal pays for a short time, but a person pays for a lifetime).

So i guess that's an answer to your question.

 

[brickwall]

that is really deep... good explanation...what church/denomination are you from?

 

[gerhard]

i recommend this book to pretty much anyone interested in religion from a secular or a religious point of view


A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong

Its pretty much a secular history of the three main religions, with a bit of philosophy thrown in as well. really interesting.

 

[Wilmo]

I don't like saying I belong to a denomination... I'm just a christian! No separation needed.


But if you must know I go to an Anglican church (hence my large amount of head knowledge about God). But knowing God rather than knowing of God is not what saves.

 

[otay]

i can't remember who said it...but whoever said that even if proof was found for God, they wouldn't follow the bible...

whether God exists or not, imagine what the world would be like if everyone followed the bible's values of love, forgiveness, helping the poor, healing the broken etc? You're either contributing to the unfortunate state of society today, or working to make it better. People complain about the world being so terrible. Now, I wonder why it is. Think about it.

Yeah religious nuts are making the world fucked up. George Bush, Bin Laden, Sharon...all these guys are enforcing policies based on religion. You don't see any atheists invading countries, blowing buildings up or causing shit because they feel like their people must live in "God given" home. What a bunch of shit. The other problem is greed and although not in the Bible, many Christians believe in the whole "The Lord helps those who help themselves" notion. Notice I said religion not simply believing in a higher existence, completely different.

 

[withoutaface]

I'm agnostic and I supported the Iraq war, as I'm sure several other non religious types on this forum do.

 

[brickwall]

i recommend this book to pretty much anyone interested in religion from a secular or a religious point of view


A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong

Its pretty much a secular history of the three main religions, with a bit of philosophy thrown in as well. really interesting.

cool- thanks

 

[brickwall]

I don't like saying I belong to a denomination... I'm just a christian! No separation needed.


But if you must know I go to an Anglican church (hence my large amount of head knowledge about God). But knowing God rather than knowing of God is not what saves.

you have excellent understanding!
it's great God's using you in this way- im a christian too... thanks for all the information, and keep learning- it's really cool.

 

[Pink_Butterfly]

In my opinion NO, although I have never even opened a bible, my opinion is based on my own igronance. I do though, celebrate holiday's which I believe to, at one stage be religious holiday's...

God exists to others and I respect that, but I choose not to believe!

 

[chockie]

Thanks Wilmo, you said it much better I'm not too good with expressing my opinions at the best of times.

 

[veterandoggy]

I'm agnostic and I supported the Iraq war, as I'm sure several other non religious types on this forum do.

even after bush helped our theories of him attacking muslims instead of saving iraq come one step truer?

plus i also heard that bush helped him reach that position anyway

 

[erawamai]

One of the better definitions of christianity from urban dictionary

A pyramid scheme based on a philosophy that was fairly progressive 2000 years ago. It has been rendered obsolete by modern scientific understanding largely due to its inability to resolve its inconsistencies through intelligently-applied critical thinking. It now serves as a means of deterring social and political advancement and as a tax on the gullible.

 

[malkin86]

Because blood symbolises life. If you have no blood in you, you have no life in you. When Cain killed Able in Genesis... God said that Ables blood was crying out to him. This was showing the seriousness of spilling the blood of an innocent. It cries out to God and he seeks retribution.

The blood of an animal would be used as a "sin offering". The blood would symbolise that something pure and innocent has died on behalf of the sinful person. Thus the blame and judgement of God rested on the animal.

It was used ritually by the jews in a lot of their temple worship. And every year a goat would be sacrificed (a scape goat) and the blood would be sprinkled on the people to wash them of their sins with it's blood.

This basically meant that the blood sprinkled on them was the life, and the innocence of the animal as well as a reminder that the goat has taken the punishment they deserve. But being an animal, the effect of taking Gods wrath was not something permanant.



With Jesus, his blood was pure and unblemished. And to be washed in his blood means that you have been given his life. You have been made pure and he has taken the punishment you deserve.

The reason Christians do not sacrifice anymore is because Jesus was a person... and as a person was a "scape goat" for as long as people live (the life of an animal pays for a short time, but a person pays for a lifetime).

So i guess that's an answer to your question.

I still don't get why God couldn't have just written the sins off with an apology, without having anything to die... :S And how can the blame and punishment of sin be transferred? :S

 

[googooloo]

I do believe in god. I think the comment about christianity becoming obsolute by modern scientific methods is partly true. Proud evangelical christians do not look to science much, unless on a doctor patient level. They htink science contradics god.

Not being part of that faith but of the muslim faith, I find this idea rediculous. Science and Islam go hand-in-hand. A lot of muslim doctors created medical equipmetn we have today, like the forseps for getting babies out of the womb. The only thign is the western docotr who took up its practice began using it on live babies. It was only meant for still borns. That is why babies who have it used to them end up have marks form it, like a crushed and indented skull. IDiots!

Everyone knows why Muslims believe in god. So I will not go into it, and do try not to be tempted to ask questions on it, since in so many other forums this has already happened, and you can find you answers there.

 

[googooloo]

Blood this blood that, blood flowing everywhere, lets bath in a river of blood.
May I ask a question? How do we know jesus died? You can only erase your own sins, you can't get someone else to do it for you. You and you are responsible alone.