hai guyz do u think we should tattoo DFEE on fee payin students foreheads? (4 Viewers)

jb_nc

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ari89 said:
I already said I was wrong about that as I thought the limit was $100k...?
Yeah you said most people can do a 3 year degree. Glad I would have to chose my degree around "time" limits and financial constraints.

Oh, yeah, honours goes out the window too. WELP.
 

ari89

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jb_nc said:
Yeah you said most people can do a 3 year degree. Glad I would have to chose my degree around "time" limits and financial constraints.

Oh, yeah, honours goes out the window too. WELP.
No I said it was open to most people who do a 3 year degree not that most people should choose a 3 year degree etc.
 

jb_nc

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ari89 said:
No I said it was open to most people who do a 3 year degree not that most people should choose a 3 year degree etc.
"Most people" isn't everyone.

Therefore the rich have an advantage.

You acknowledge this now. But before you tried to argue it was open to everyone and perfectly equal.

Do you flip-flop all the time or only when your argument is exposed for bullshit? You couldn't even fit a Vet Sci degree under the $100k cap so you tried to argue for the fact you were ignorant to the $80k limit on normal degrees...
 

ari89

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jb_nc said:
"Most people" isn't everyone.

Therefore the rich have an advantage.

You acknowledge this now. But before you tried to argue it was open to everyone and perfectly equal.
I admitted where I was wrong and the reason for it all by myself like a big boy:)

wtf?
 

Azamakumar

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jb_nc said:
I don't think you're getting it. Two dudes get a UAI of x-1 whereas the UAI cut-off is x. One is rich, one is poor. The onus is on both of them for not doing well enough to get the UAI cut-off for a CSP.

The rich guy takes up a DFEE spot while the poor person doesn't get his course he wanted to do.

Uh, so... Why is there no "onus" on the rich person to do well and cut the queue while the poor person simply has to accept the responsibilities of his poor academic achievements?
Maybe it wasn't obvious enough in my post. If I choose the DFEE course I'm taking out a FEE-HELP loan, thats anywhere between 41k and 61k that I'm going to owe, pending a 2nd year transfer.

In that situation I see no reason for the rich kid to not get a spot, provided that the poor one was unwilling to take out a loan. I see no reason for people to be having a fucking cry in that situation, except in an instance where they aren't a citizen, and they have no access to the loan.
 

Azamakumar

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From other thread:



Yeah but with the last example, academically the poor kid and rich kid were on even footing. Poor kid does not want to commit to large pricetag of course to entry, rich kid does.

Lets be honest, FEE-HELP is unrealistic at best, but it gives people that actually want to complete a course a genuine chance to do so, in that it does not require repayment until you earn above a threshold, rather than a monthly/weekly installment from the word go.
 
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jb_nc

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So who locked this thread the first time. Come out and say it.

Anyway:
fOxYcLeOpTrA89 said:
poor people can also use fee help. and may i ask how its unrealistic? many ppl seem to use it every yr with no problems. my cousin was awarded the university medal at unsw and was a fee paying student. his mother earnt less than $30k a yr and his father died a couple of yrs ago. he had 2 pay for his position at uni due to the death being in his final yr of school. he deserved his position more than any1 else in his course at the time which is evident in his marks. without the loan program or fee paying places, he would be doing sum shitty commerce degree
Oh, what a touching anecdote. Oh, well, there goes all my opposition towards allowing rich people to cut the queue. I think I'm going to print it out and show everyone who missed out on a CSP place of a course of there choice, fell within the DFEE mark and chose another because they couldn't afford it. I'm sure they will be touched and forget about all their worries in the world!

And I'll think I'll print it out and show it to the homeless gentlemen in Hyde Park who can't afford food and shelter because well, allegedly some guy whose father died made it into university through DFEE! Wonderful! Touching! Amazing! Tres bon! Maqnifique!

ari89 said:
I admitted where I was wrong and the reason for it all by myself like a big boy

wtf?
Is this a lesson in how to choice quote something. Practice for Liberal politicking? Answer the question you want to be asked but not the question you were asked.

Azamakumar said:
Maybe it wasn't obvious enough in my post. If I choose the DFEE course I'm taking out a FEE-HELP loan, thats anywhere between 41k and 61k that I'm going to owe, pending a 2nd year transfer.
Pending a 2nd year transfer. The poor person doesn't even get to try the second year transfer from the degree they wanted to do, and if they fail they continue on with their 2nd/3rd/4th choice of degree. The rich person can try from the DFEE course and if they fail, we'll they just continue having their parents pay for the course no worries.

Totally fair and equitable stuff there.

In that situation I see no reason for the rich kid to not get a spot, provided that the poor one was unwilling to take out a loan. I see no reason for people to be having a fucking cry in that situation, except in an instance where they aren't a citizen, and they have no access to the loan.
Unwilling to take out what kind of loan? A FEE-HELP loan? Because we'll what happens if it's the BE where you have to go over by $30 000 to cover the full course amount and being willing doesn't necessarily grant you the fact that a private lender will give you the money you are asking for. Why risk it at all then? If you try in your first year, the lender will say, no way, way too much of a risk and if you try in your last year and the lender refuses because you don't have enough collateral, we'll you're fucked with $80k worth of debt and no degree. Or they give you a loan with 25% interest or some absurd amount because the deem you such a risk.

Is it worth being possible placed in a debt spiral because you couldn't get the required UAI but a rich person with the same UAI can easily afford it.

My hands are tired.
 

jb_nc

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zimmerman8k said:
jb_nc wins.
It ain't easy being a champion.

Seriously if you're going to argue the merits of DFEE or something say, well, it allows the government to cut expenditure and provides an independent steam of income to the universities which could allow the government to lower taxes or something.

Don't hide behind the concept of "equality" when it's anything but.
 

jb_nc

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jb_nc said:
Seriously if you're going to argue the merits of DFEE or something say, well, it allows the government to cut expenditure and provides an independent steam of income to the universities which could allow the government to lower taxes or something.
Should I just debate myself?
 

jb_nc

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Azamakumar

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jb_nc said:
Yeah, I just get angry when people say "some rich white kid that eats caviar off porcelain in his waterfront apartment surrounded by his dads 30 mercedes stole my spot".


Work harder next time you shitcunt. He worked hard enough to get into an academic position with that kind of leverage.
 

jb_nc

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fOxYcLeOpTrA89 said:
did u not read what i had written? my cousin is one of those poor people u keep saying cant get a dfee place due to financial difficulty... he "fell within the dfee mark". thats wat allowed him to do his law degree. fee-help and his dfee position
I think I can write your own "The Education of a Young Liberal" biography right now. Just four pages and five words of the text "Not much education at all".

I don't know why you think your aloof personal anecdote (which may or may not have even happened) somehow validates your position and makes it divine? Maybe you should... stop posting and return to the real world.
 

jb_nc

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zimmerman8k said:
Dude, if you work hard in life you will be rewarded, its that easy. Poor people deserve it because they are lazy sloths.
Poor people don't exist and are a construct of the small-l liberal media (ABC, Phillip Adams and Kerry O'Brien).
 

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If you can afford to pay shitloads for a degree that you didnt do quite well enough to get into as a CSP student, then good for you. There are other ways around it without getting yourself into massive debt, though. Most universities have alternate entry programs, I don't see why you wouldn't go down that path first seeing as how you only get 5 UAI points leeway with a DFEE place anyway.
 
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Nah. Making people shell out 40 grand is punishment enough. (For med anyway).

Or you know, 55 grand if you really wanted to do aviation....
 

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jb_nc said:
Because if I'm not educated I'm going to rob and kill you for $20 to buy a meal.

How about that.

Hahaha jb_nc, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Nice logic.
 

jb_nc

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Schroedinger said:
Not everyone gets to be a lawyer you dickbag.
haha, I agree but I think either (a) DFEE should be completely abolished or (b) the FEE-HELP cap should be raised so anyone can complete a degree without having to pay money up front so there's no discrimination between rich or poor.
 

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