Important - New Legislation - Read! (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

If you're implying that under small business in VSU, students as employees would be worse off, well that is debatable (if you weren't implying this, my apologies).

I was running low on ideas, so I just went with what was at hand . Even though I don't believe that the Government is walking along the right path with respect to USU/VSU and IR reforms, I don't think that the possible introduction of small business operators will be as bad as I, somewhat cynically, suggested.

Edit: Even though I stand for USU, I can see the point in pursuing VSU... Society and campus life is changing, for better or worse, so the issue had to be addressed at some stage.

 

[Minai]

I think we're forgetting the enormous profit that student unions make. I recall an article from UNSW's student newspaper last year that stated the UNSW union makes a profit from all the sponsorship deals it has. Something tells me they'll survive easily with VSU

 

[MoonlightSonata]

There a number of other areas in which our 'right to choose' is not avaliable. The leader of the Dems made a good comment about the Liberals mistaking uni unions as 'trade unions' that go on strike and disrupt productivity.

As humorous as that comment is... in truth Nelson's objectives have been fundamentally based on freedom of association, rather than some sort of semantic slag-fest stemming from Liberal party hatred of unions

 

[theone123]

As humorous as that comment is... in truth Nelson's objectives have been fundamentally based on freedom of association, rather than some sort of semantic slag-fest stemming from Liberal party hatred of unions

i believe it should be voluntary, employment cant force us to join unions, so why should universities have any more different judgemental powers.

 

[Skillo]

It's simply an ideological push. Nothing more. It's ironic that the liberal front bench got their stripes in student politics. Now are disbanding it.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Asquithian again."

Excellent point there Asqui. Sigged.

I'm not even at uni YET. And I think this is disgusting. I'm quite fearful of this actually being passed, what with Liberals holding a senate majority.

It was interesting to see on Question Time that Brendon Nelson was quoting a letter 'written to him' that was complaining about their fees being paid for 'Trips to Woomera', 'Bail' and 'Marching against the Tampa'.

I wonder if they would of given a shit if it wasn't so bleeding pro-liberal. God I hate Australian politics of today, it's like watching five year olds fighting over who gets the biggest chicken nugget in the box.

Hmm. Don't know why I used chicken nuggets to compare politics to. Maybe its because they're all wrinkly, stale and fat.

 

[Minai]

I don't see the fuss in some ways...students movements etc saying this move is unpopular or whatever...gee, and what happened in the election? It's clear that the majority of Australia support the policy.

 

[Sarah]

I don't see the fuss in some ways...students movements etc saying this move is unpopular or whatever...gee, and what happened in the election? It's clear that the majority of Australia support the policy.

Well, it's interesting that you say that. From what I recall, there was a lot of attention given to interest rates particuarly from the Liberal Party. I don't recall anything being mentioned about reforms in tertiary education. Point being, it wasn't a policy issue back then. It is now.

Does the majority of Australia support the policy? Well i don't think that the majority of Australians who were voting at the election had this in mind. I don't think most voters (who aren't uni students) see this as an issue of concern that impacts on them.

I doubt the majority of voters fall into the category of uni students. They probably supported other policies which had more of an impact on them

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I don't think anyone at USyd has to worry..... btw USyd has was more than 10000 students, try 40-50000.... even UTS had 30000 students. Plus my friend who does stuff for the union just told me that only 30% of the USyd Union's revenue comes from the student fees..... on my calculations the USyd union would earn something more like this:

40000 times 600= 24 000 000
Since this is only 30% of the revenue, USyd Union must earn something in the vicinity of 80000000....... hmmm kids I wouldn't worry about manning closing any time soon.

At UTS when we pay our fees the union is separate from the student's association. I think that this is a good thing. UTS Union is very non political, while the student's association is. I don't think it should be compulsory to pay the student's association money, because people have differing political views.... but if the current offerings of the UTS Union are anything to go by, things will become even worse after VSU. Our union centre is quite old and run down, we have limited social events etc compared to USyd and UNSW. Plus I know that UTS does not have a lot of extra cash due to recent building purchases and construction plans and hence if the union cannot afford to provide certain things than the uni isn't really going to be opening up the coffers to help out.

Regional unis will be hit very hard because students there will not see to union as offering much (because the unions have a small income) and hence will not choose to support it at all, which will probably reduce the unions to oblivion.

 

[stazi]

Asquithian, any chance you could argue with rubix or whatever he is in the usyd forum equivelant for this thread. you're obviously more intelligent and more opinionated (and less tired) then I am. (the effects of 2 yrs extra of a uni education)

 

[stazi]

I don't think anyone at USyd has to worry..... btw USyd has was more than 10000 students, try 40-50000.... even UTS had 30000 students. Plus my friend who does stuff for the union just told me that only 30% of the USyd Union's revenue comes from the student fees..... on my calculations the USyd union would earn something more like this:

40000 times 600= 24 000 000
Since this is only 30% of the revenue, USyd Union must earn something in the vicinity of 80000000....... hmmm kids I wouldn't worry about manning closing any time soon.

I'm not sure how correct the 30% figure is as I can't see evidence.
USU gets $271/head
40,000 (if thats indeed the total enrolment figure) times 271 = 10 840 000
so they would earn 36 133 333 total.
A big difference. Although that's still a lot. I would like to see confirmation of the 30% revenue from fees thing.

 

[stazi]

oh and furthermore on the 40k figure. That smh website shows that just around 27500 students are enrolled (divide total src income from contribution)

So:
$271/head
27500 students
$7 452 500 total revenue from students.

Undetermined amount externally.

Hehe, big dif to 24 mil.
Although the total (if 70% is added on) will be around the 24 mil mark

 

[AsyLum]

Ill be interested to see the outcome of this.

Im going to continue paying cos i love my subsidised stuff.

 

[MaryJane]

I personally dont feel like I get much out of my student fees. All the food in SAM is outcourced and thus rrp anyway. The only things that are cheaper is coffee, muffins, alcohol and... well.. thats pretty much it. What I dont like about my fees is the fact that I pay to have others use the gym at a lower price. I hate the gym and never use it, so I dont see why I should have to pay for that.

If anything, they should bring in VSU, but make it so that if you decide to contribute to a union on campus, you get subsidies. This would make it fair to everyone, in my opinion. And surely it wouldnt be that hard to implement!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The computers which were paid through compulsary funds? I think they should be given back to the students.. bit unfair to say "well now that u dun wanna pay we'll take away everything that we bought for u with ur money!".
Union mc scrooge.

 

[Xayma]

I'm not sure how correct the 30% figure is as I can't see evidence.
USU gets $271/head
40,000 (if thats indeed the total enrolment figure) times 271 = 10 840 000
so they would earn 36 133 333 total.
A big difference. Although that's still a lot. I would like to see confirmation of the 30% revenue from fees thing.

From the 2003 Financial report (emphasis added):

For the year ended 31 December 2003

Income
Memberships. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8,185,038
.
.
.
_______________________________________________________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24,468,368

Around 30%. Given they made a net loss of around $900 000 in catering it wouldn't be that large an increase to break even (For every $7 spent then it cost the union approx $8), Child care was only $190 000. The net surplus for the year was over $2 million.

 

[LeftrightOut]

Take this as a Devil's Advocate anti-union post. I would probably pay my student union fees even if they were voluntary and I am in a union at my workplace.

To me it always seems those complaining the loudest are those with the most to lose. For example those who are on the board drawing a salary or employed by the union or those that are members of 30 clubs.

I would imagine most parents support the drop in compulsory fees as they would see the cost of university for their child dropping meaning they will have more money in their pockets. Besides what parent sends their kids to uni solely for the purpose of getting cheap drinks or socialising? So if you are concerned about apathy it's not apathy, it's prioritisation, it's another drop in the amount of money going out of the household.

Many external students will probably not be paying as many of these do not see the point of a student union when they are nowhere near the place.

Some students also see unions spending their money unwisely such as:
- Team building trips to the coast or overseas
- Supporting political actions the student does not agree with
- Cars for executive members
- Purchasing commercial property
- Not supporting a particular club as much as that student believes they should

A lot of the power of the student union has also been seen as eroding, I am sure if the last lot of HECS rulings would not have gone through then the amount of people still believing in the union as a powerful force would have been higher than it is now.

As for cheap coffee or drinks, well that is all in the eye of the beholder. I was paying $1 at the uni for a can of coke when I went, the machine was there from the union, yet at Coles I could buy them for roughly 50cents each, where is the union subsidy on that? On wholesale you would probably get it cheaper than 50cents. It's not like everything the union offers is value for money and anything that is offered by private companies is a rip off.

As for employment, is the job of the union to try to help all students in their uni life or is its job to provide employment? Lots of places provide employment yet they need no annual fee. Who is to say the current business operated by the union will not continue to operate? I have never seen low enough prices in any of the union run businesses to think "oh my, if I don't pay my fees this place will shut down"

As for childcare and other services. If they get utilised then a private enterprise will see that need and service it, that would be our economic system at work, if there is demand chances are someone will supply. It could even be the Union.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Maybe instead of getting rid of it all together you should be able to decide the amount you contribute and what activities you contribute to, and then you get access to what you pay for and nothing else.

I would much rather that, cause right now I am paying for a lot of things I don't use, and never intend on using.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

rorix?

Rorix and I dont argue. It is pointless. He is clever and he can argue his point well. There is no time or way you can change someone who has well thought out opinions he can justify.

You can't change them but you can corner them by severing off the flawed parts of their argument, which ideally will narrow the frame of the argument to your own terms. I've battered him down a couple of times but likewise I find it tiring arguing with him

Which is good really. I like a challenge. Better to be tired from a strong debate than being tired because of frustration at people's stupidity

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Well you have to admit...anything that is collection of perople banding together for a common cause is liberal no no.

A march against unions?

 

[withoutaface]

Yep...If you are not a member of union you do not get those services.

Do you suggest that those who do no feel the need to pay union services should be be able to get union benefits?

So far as I know at usyd the compulsory HECS fees pay for the computers.