Is suicide the "easy" option? (2 Viewers)

[rink]

have you ever heard that depression can be hereditary and due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. before you start attacking me, yes there are differing professional opinions and schools of thought on it but why do you think people take anti-depressants.

also, give a thought to people will conditions like schizophrenia, OCD, etc. many of them won't become suicidal or even depressed, but tell me, what would you say to them if they did.

suck it up and stop whinging?

stop grouping people into strict groups. there are many different factors that contribute to depression and it'd be nice if you stopped saying everyone is a sad whinger who doesn't understand what third world kids go through

Yes I study depression, schizophrenia etc. First of all, I wasn't really referring to clinical depression. Secondly, as u said, there are differing opinions as to whether it is hereditary or not. Depression in itself is not hereditary. However, most ppl accept that due to hereditary factors some are more predisposed to depression than others. This, I agree with. However:
a) Although the onset of depression can be affected by hereditary and genetic facotrs i dont believe it affects it to a huge extent. I think it only affects u to a small degree.
b) Even if the only reason these ppl are depressed is solely becoz of genetic factors, I still don't believe it justifies committing suicide.

And yes im aware that a variety of factors contribute to depression. But if u bothered to read my earlier posts, u've missed the whole point of my argument. Hereditary or not, whatever factor contributes to depression - suicide is still wrong and cowardly.

As for my post......if u read it properly, I never said that THEY shoudl stop whinging. I wasn't really targeting them as u suggest. I said that WE should stop whinging, including myself. The whole point of that statement was that we ppl living in the west dont truly appreciate what we have (and yes im generalising, but in the majority of cases it's true).

 

[xeuyrawp]

No, I don't really agree.

You're describing a complete mental breakdown. If someone can't cope with a situation, they have a breakdown.

I'm not describing a mental breakdown. Read what I said.

It could even be reduced mathematically.

When p = pain, and a = ability to cope:

If p>a, suicide is likely result. a means mental state at that time, friends and family who are support, social and academic life, sometimes drugs help... p means drug problems, problems with friends, bad grades, etc.

In an effort to cope, they'll resort to suicide. I think there's far more effort involved in killing yourself rather than simply shutting yourself off from humanity.

Suicide is not a way to cope, it's a way of temporarily escaping pain. This is shown by the irrational nature of people wanting to kill themselves- the pain and hence want to end it all comes to a temporary climax.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Also- Can I just say a big "Fuck you" to all the psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors who are so very quick to label the teen with problems as "depressed".

 

[Tulipa]

Also- Can I just say a big "Fuck you" to all the psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors who are so very quick to label the teen with problems as "depressed".

i agree
to a degree.

i'm more inclined to be interested in those that do a more in depth analysis and background probing into other issues.

and a big fuck you to all those psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors, who recommend anti-depressants on like your second visit.

 

[xeuyrawp]

and a big fuck you to all those psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors, who recommend anti-depressants on like your second visit.

Someone's been reading my other posts

It's ironic that anti-depressants turn some people suicidal.

i'm more inclined to be interested in those that do a more in depth analysis and background probing into other issues.

I totally agree with that, too, but I think the best thing to do is just talk to them in a more relaxed fashion.

 

[rink]

''To make sweeping generalisations like "depression is all relative" is just stupid.''

You obviously didn't understand my post. I wasn't referring to the causes of depression. What I meant was that the extent to which we really are depressed is relative because for example, lets say 2 ppl are both very depressed and they both rate their depression as 10/10. Other ppl may look at their situation and it may be clear that one of them seems as though they are more depressed than the other. Hence, why it's relative. It's a hard concept to try and get across.

 

[xeuyrawp]

It's a hard concept to try and get across.

Well, it's subjective, not to mention the hugely different manifestations of depression- cutting, drugs, suicide, going to school with a gun, listening to shitty punk music.

 

[Tulipa]

Someone's been reading my other posts

It's ironic that anti-depressants turn some people suicidal.



I totally agree with that, too, but I think the best thing to do is just talk to them in a more relaxed fashion.

haha no i'm very inclined to think that anti-depressants are shit for a number of reasons. particularly coming off them. thats fucked.

and it is good to talk to them in a relaxed fashion but if they think they have the answers from a more casual conversation, then i'd be slightly worried. they do need to ask some tougher questions.

edit: you cannot see someone's depression from a viewpoint really and analyse it unless you have extensive knowledge of their condition.

 

[xeuyrawp]

haha no i'm very inclined to think that anti-depressants are shit for a number of reasons. particularly coming off them. thats fucked..

Yeah, and I have scars to prove it.

and it is good to talk to them in a relaxed fashion but if they think they have the answers from a more casual conversation, then i'd be slightly worried. they do need to ask some tougher questions

Yeah, of course, but I think lurching into a deep analysis via more tough questions can make people clam up.

 

[Tulipa]

Yeah, and I have scars to prove it.



Yeah, of course, but I think lurching into a deep analysis via more tough questions can make people clam up.

coming off them was worse than before i went on.

and of course it would make them clam up first session but you have to give it time right? so i think they just ease into it. i've found that by having too casual a conversation, i've been reluctant to go back but by them asking too much too soon, i've been scared off. so maybe they just have to figure out a healthy balance?

 

[xeuyrawp]

coming off them was worse than before i went on.

Yes. Tofranil is apparently one of the least impactful in the long term, but I'm sure I'd actually get to sleep if I took them.

 

[Tulipa]

Yes. Tofranil is apparently one of the least impactful in the long term, but I'm sure I'd actually get to sleep if I took them.

yeah but i have trouble with the idea of taking a pill to feel better. rejection of genetics maybe but i know a few people who have the same idea. and thus don't take their meds.

that reluctance + side effects + coming off mean i'm not ready to try them again anytime soon.

 

[Xayma]

Yeah i WOULDN'T do it. You know why? coz i believe in facing ur problems and not running away from them, and i wouldn't be that selfish!!! So what if they didn't have the choice? Thats the stupidest thing i've ever heard. So what - let's say ur brother or sumthing gets into a car accident and is paralysed for the rest of his life. He is in need of personal care by you for whatever reason, but because it was never ur choice for him to have a car accident, then u decide to forget him coz uve got ur own life to live. Isn't that selfish? Not the best example, but it's the same concept.

No it isn't. It would be selfish of him to expect you to look after him. It isn't selfish to go live your life, it is nice of you if you do help, but it isn't selfish.

If u commit suicide, it's only benefiting you. If others expect u to refrain from committing suicide ie.family, friends etc then it's benefiting more than just one person.

So now ur against having children too? From what u said, u shouldn't ever have kids coz u consider it selfish.

Well you are saving your parents future costs of raising you. Which is a disadvantage to them. It isn't all clear cut

And that HSC comment was just ridiculous. First of all my definition stated that something is selfish when it's benefiting you at the COST OF OTHERS. Secondly, you assume im studying for the HSC to benefit myself. How would u know why im motivated to do well in the HSC? Maybe i'm only studying to please my parents, ever think of that?

Stopping a person from getting into their Uni course isn't a cost to them? But studying to please your parents is studying to benefit your own mind, otherwise you wouldn't do any act.

 

[withoutaface]

Suicide, imo, generally comes about from a lack of perspective on the part of the person committing it. To say whether it's easy or hard depends on the person's state of mind at the time.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Suicide, imo, generally comes about from a lack of perspective on the part of the person committing it. To say whether it's easy or hard depends on the person's state of mind at the time.

Yes, that's very true.

The best way to talk someone out of it is to urge them to think rationally, which they rarely do at the time.

 

[beccaxx]

it cant b an easy option. apparently heaps of ppl have "suicidal thoughts" but theres only a fraction of them that actually end up dying. So whilst we might at times wana die to escape reality 4 awhile i think the majority of ppl who DONT do it, proves it cant be as easy as others can assume. its a big deal, and a very permanent option. how is it that we can think that whatever happens after we die (if there is something, and u all no wat i believe here) will be better than wat we r going thru now?

 

[tech.knockout]

I only have contempt for people who suicide when theres at least one person who loves them appropriately. I stress the word "appropriately" as many families love their children in the wrong fashion. One example is forcing them to study, ignorant of their emotional needs, etc. A wide emotional rift between family and child renders whatever love between them invalid as they cannot understand and empathise each others' situation.

Oh really now? Depression and sadness and all that is all relative. For them, being in their position is not as bad to them as it is to us. Why? Because they haven't experienced any better. How can u know the value of something, or how can u know to what extent ur situation is horrible when u have not experienced anything other than it. For example, how can u know how much poverty truly sucks if you've only ever been poor and never experienced wealth. The point im trying to make is that, for these ppl - yes, their situation is really bad. However, someone in western society today who is considering suicide for whatever reason, thinks of their life as crap to the same extent that these ppl think of their lives as crap. However, that doesn't mean we can sit there and complain about stuff now just coz its all relative. Because we, although we're rich and stuff, we have still experienced hunger, sadness, sleeping on the ground at one time or anoteher and all that. But they've never experienced the stuff we take for granted. That's the diff.

This is irrelevent. Most suicides and perception of self mainly result from pure emotional needs(mainly love and spirituallity), not materialistic/primal needs. There is a reason why nwatts specifically mentioned those "who have no family or friends, Those who are homeless or orphans." Such examples directly refer to people with lack of emotional fulfillment. Emotional pain is far more severe influence on perception of self than physical pain like hunger, starvation, sleeping on hard ground,etc. It is completely justified to expect more suicides from a much richer country with more severe social problems compared to the relatively stable poor country.
Personally your point has little significance. I will say with certainty that I will prefer to live in poverty but be loved dearly by family and friends, than to live a materialistically comfortable rich life but little love.

I stand by nwatt's piont that it is totally unjustified to call someone who is emotionally bankrupt a coward just because the majority of people alive on earth have it worse in terms of material and primal needs.

You only have a piont if the majority of the world's people have it worse in terms of emotional fulfilment(relative to the person contemplating suicide) and yet still cling to life. But this is a case by case basis.

 

[volition]

With regards to 'studying for the HSC' being selfish, I actually think that it's acceptable to society to be 'selfish' in this regard, thats the whole POINT. This system works because people will generally want to study if they want the marks and people who are willing to study will go on to uni(ideally).

Suicide on the other hand, is not so readily acceptable to society and does not solve any problems. While it's true that the person considering suicide may be experiencing difficulties I think that that's just something that they should deal with (you don't choose your appearance for example, you just play the hand you've been dealt). Utimately, our society will not survive 'suicide' as an option (literally ) , while it will still survive if people choose to 'be selfish and study'.

Suicide IS the easier way out and unlike studying, suicide cannot be an acceptable outcome for society.

 

[withoutaface]

Actually its debatable whether its selfish, because its in society's best interests that the smartest among us take the university positions so that they can make the best use of the high end positions a degree offers and make the maximum possible contribution.

 

[Xayma]

Well people take up more resources while alive, would require medical help probably long term for their depression and will die eventually anyway, probably after a long retirement.

Could save society some money (depends on what value their contribution would've been but that's debatable).