Islamic Sex Education in Australia (2 Viewers)

[banco55]

Jesus. Get a clue.

Banco. Children from strong Muslim families, who get sent to strict Muslim schools are possibly the last people in Australia to "fall" pregnant. I also do not see where this focus on teen mothers comes from. Are you assuming all teen mothers are going to be welfare dependant?

Because they are not taught about contrapcetion does not mean they run the risk of teen pregnancy. THEY'RE MUSLIM. As well as being taught no contraception, they're being taught NOT TO HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE.
Therefore I cannot see where you're argument is coming from.

You'll notice I specifically said that I thought teen pregnancy rates would be low in the muslim population and I never said ALL teen mothers are going to be welfare dependend. However a high proportion of teenage mothers do end up on welfare. I was simply pointing out that society has a vested interest in teaching kids about safe sex/contraception.

 

[veterandoggy]

What a load of misleading crap, if they have no knowledge of STD's and tolerance of alternative lifestyles in Western democratic countries they might as well live in some hell hole like Saudi Arabia.

What a piece of shit religion is.

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Edit: The link - http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/muslim-sex-education-just-say-no/2006/05/28/1148754873032.html

well, if a paraphrase makes things better...

in islam sex outside marriage is forbidden. are you still with me? good, because by now you should have understood that they dont want to teach this stuff to the kids so that they dont do what is contrary to their religion. i dont see how the last part of that quote is relative to the rest though, because by muslim schools teaching sex outside marriage to be forbidden there is no way that the STD increase will be due to these schools' adopted teachings.

and the universal thing wont work, because no matter what is decided upon not everyone will be happy

 

[withoutaface]

There have been clear links shown all over the place between abstinence teachings and STD increases. It's the forbidden fruit, and they should be educated about the facts surrounding sex, and that while it's undesirable to do it outside of marriage according to the qu'ran, if you're going to do so anyway use protection.

It should be tied into the schools' public funding arrangements that if they're not going to teach safe sex, they don't get any money from the government.

 

[veterandoggy]

Yes, but in reality when these kids may question their faith and become curious (which is quite plausible) about sex, as it is something they hear about quite often but are shut off towards, of course they are going to want to know what all the fuss is about, without having any knowledge of STD's and biologically how the reproductive system functions. It is bound to happen in some cases.

What also strikes me is the conflict between any religion or any school and the mess that will leave on the kid if they find out they are gay or bisexual and they are taught they are going to go to hell or that this lifestyle is "immoral". They are going to be fed the same bullshit over and over again that can lead to serious identity problems, etc. What they need to be taught is that these relationships, exist, even though we do not condone them, it is your choice in the end.

they will learn about STDs in PDHPE, being part of the australian syllabus IIRC, and with all the exposure they get from TV etc. about sex of course they are going to be curious and if their mind is poisoned enough they will want to try it out before marriage. you make it out like they will never going to have sex with this post, when they can after they get married, which is incorrect. and having a muslim teacher doesnt mean that they will shut out the information, they will just teach it with the emphasis that it is forbidden in islam and such.

lol if they find out that they are bisexual/gay? there is a narration from the prophet's time which was about when the chapter in the quran describing Lot's people- who were the first people to practise sodomy and homosexuality- was revealed. the narrator had said that before that chapter was sent down it had never occured to their mind that a man would come onto a man or a woman onto a woman. that shows you that if people never knew homosexuality existed then they would never have thought about being a homosexual. and they are taught that these relationships exist, but they are forbidden in islam. the prophet didnt stop a bedouin from urinating in the mosque, and although his companions wanted to hurt the guy, he told them to pour water over the urine and told the bedouin that the place of worship shouldnt be dirty. you would think that if honour killings were permitted in islam then it would have happened during the prophet's time? after all, islam was revealed through him, and no one could explain islam better than him.

 

[withoutaface]

they will learn about STDs in PDHPE, being part of the australian syllabus IIRC, and with all the exposure they get from TV etc. about sex of course they are going to be curious and if their mind is poisoned enough they will want to try it out before marriage. you make it out like they will never going to have sex with this post, when they can after they get married, which is incorrect. and having a muslim teacher doesnt mean that they will shut out the information, they will just teach it with the emphasis that it is forbidden in islam and such.

lol if they find out that they are bisexual/gay? there is a narration from the prophet's time which was about when the chapter in the quran describing Lot's people- who were the first people to practise sodomy and homosexuality- was revealed. the narrator had said that before that chapter was sent down it had never occured to their mind that a man would come onto a man or a woman onto a woman. that shows you that if people never knew homosexuality existed then they would never have thought about being a homosexual. and they are taught that these relationships exist, but they are forbidden in islam. the prophet didnt stop a bedouin from urinating in the mosque, and although his companions wanted to hurt the guy, he told them to pour water over the urine and told the bedouin that the place of worship shouldnt be dirty. you would think that if honour killings were permitted in islam then it would have happened during the prophet's time? after all, islam was revealed through him, and no one could explain islam better than him.

1. You've stated here that with the media the way it is, they're going to want to try sex out before marriage anyway, regardless of what they are taught at school. There are two ways to ensure that this doesn't lead to an escalation in STD's, being putting an emphasis on safe sex, or censoring the media. One would hope you wouldn't endorse the second option.
2. Homosexuality occurs all the time in the animal kingdom, I suppose they were told about it through the whispers of their fellow animals? Where's your evidence (archaelogical or otherwise, so long as it's not pulled from the qu'ran) that Lot's people were the first to practice it, or indeed that Lot's people existed at all.

 

[veterandoggy]

in a way, yes, you are correct. they will want to try out sex before they get married if they dont get married. but with all the punishments for this in islam it does help the prevention process. censoring the media would help, but not enough, and there will be resistance.

im not 100% sure if the biblical name is Lot, but the quranic name is Lut, if that strikes a bell to you. and i would love to provide some proof, but i cant, since their whoe town was raised by gabriel and turned upside down (referring to what is said in the quran of course). and if it was not the first then it was pretty close. they were about when abraham was alive, so this supposedly occured close to the beginning of jeudaism.

 

[withoutaface]

in a way, yes, you are correct. they will want to try out sex before they get married if they dont get married. but with all the punishments for this in islam it does help the prevention process. censoring the media would help, but not enough, and there will be resistance.

im not 100% sure if the biblical name is Lot, but the quranic name is Lut, if that strikes a bell to you. and i would love to provide some proof, but i cant, since their whoe town was raised by gabriel and turned upside down (referring to what is said in the quran of course). and if it was not the first then it was pretty close. they were about when abraham was alive, so this supposedly occured close to the beginning of jeudaism.

See, I had this piece of paper proving God didn't exist and that homosexuality wasn't a sin, but it spontaneously combusted

 

[wheredanton]

Teen pregnancy is an issue for all people of all demographics.
But, this is not an issue about 'education'. Parents expect too much from schools.. how can you expect a Muslim teacher with strict rules explaining to teen such things as 'Masturbation, Involuntary Ejaculation and Contraceptive/Safe Sex' when as a religion they promote 'never using contraceptions' and only ever sleeping with your life partner?

Parents should teach their own children about these things, and since the government only 'controls' some aspects of the syllabus when they're dealing with 'private' schools, they have less control when it comes to such 'communal' education.

However, learning about these things 'are' a necessity only when engaging in such frivalrous acts. I don't think these involve the muslim communities where the parents pay for their children to receive an islamic education.

Then again, this isn't an argument about religious beliefs conflicting with society. It's another 'attack' on islam. Why is it only discussing 'Islamic Sex Education'? When Jeudaism, Christian, and Catholic schools all follow similar ruling of such 'optional' education.

It's like 'meningococcal' vaccinations, If you can prevent the spread of the disease the vaccinations are useless... but if you start vaccinating people, their is a chance of actually spreading the disease.
It's the same idea, the idea that 'pre-marital sex' is fine could infact cause such diseases and 'pre-marital pregnancies'.

Prevention > Protection

You are a fucking idiot.

 

[katie_tully]

And I'm stuck for words.
Veterandoggy, these people live in Australia. They wish to be educated in Australia. Nobody is saying that by teaching them adequate sex education we are inviting them to engage in activities that contradict their faith. I would think that being fully aware of the dangers of unprotected and random sex would enforce their belief of abstinence even further.

Their religion conflicts with what we know happens in a secular society. Deal with it.

Take limited notice of Sam04u, he was repeatedly dropped on his head as an infant.

 

[sam04u]

Shut up, stupid idiot.

My point was parents should be teaching their own children about sex education, and maybe making it important for parental awareness. Instead of relying on schools to educate their children about these things.

Let's remember schools are for 'Education' and not 'Assimilation', and I think we've argued the whole, 'assimilate fully or leave' discussion.

Class discussions are important, but sometimes those Geniuses over in the education department who write these syllabuses don't always get everything right. Since just like the 'parents' of the children they're just human.

A classic example is my little sister coming home today saying, ''Sam, do you take drugs?'', to which I replied "Err... Yes". Then she went on a little ramble It sounded something like this, "Sam, if you take drugs first you'll say 'I just want to try it once' and then you'll get 'attracted' to it and you'll keep taking it and then your brain cells will all rot and you wont be able to think". I said... "Err... Firstly most medicines are considered 'drugs' then I said... It's 'addicted' not 'attracted''
Then I began telling her how it ruins other parts of your life and society, and that was the most dangerous part about it.

The problem is, it's being seen as something that only effects the Individual... Some factors of education need to be monitored more closely, or we'll end up thinking taking drugs will only effect the individual.... which is a lie.

-Conclusion,
Katie_Tully, is a spaz.
Islamic schools can teach what they want. (So long as they don't lie about what's proven scientifically)
And, I'm smarter then all of you. so Just agree and stop arguing.

 

[Generator]

The abuse ends here. Should anyone else feel the need to ignore this line in the sand, please don't complain when your posts disappear and warnings appear in your PM inbox.

I should have done this long ago, but now is better than never - the discussions contained within this thread that concern Islam here in Australia are better off in this thread. Should anyone wish to discuss sex education in general, please feel free to create a new thread, but if nobody has created such a thread by tomorrow afternoon, I'll create one myself.