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Israel and Palestine (2 Viewers)

Atilla89

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Re: Israel & Palestine

I have no idea as to why another Middle-Eastern economy has anything to do with the Palestinian people, but it was you who brought it up - saying something about Arab economies could flourish if there wasn't any trade sanctions (which there aren't).

BTW, interesting article involving a fatwa not letting Palestinians move to other countries (talk about limiting freedom of movement...)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181228581339&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull



Alarmed by the growing number of Palestinians who are emigrating from the Palestinian territories, the Palestinian Authority's mufti has issued a fatwa [religious decree] forbidding Muslims to leave.
Sources in the PA Foreign Ministry told The Jerusalem Post that some 10,000 Palestinians have filed requests to emigrate from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the year. They said the requests had been approved.
"Every day we hear about hundreds of Palestinians who file requests for emigration with different consulates and diplomatic missions," the sources said.
"According to our statistics, there are at least 45,000 emigration applications being reviewed by different countries."
The sources said most of the applicants were young men seeking work abroad. They said the majority of them wanted to move to the US, EU and Canada.
The number of Palestinians who wish to emigrate increased significantly after the second intifada broke out in September 2000. Figures published by a number of Palestinian groups show that 50,000 to 80,000 people emigrated in the first few years after the violence erupted.
Dr. Nu'man Amr of Al-Quds University attributed the phenomenon to the harsh economic situation and the high rate of unemployment. "Most university graduates can't find jobs here," he said. "Even those who find jobs here are not receiving good salaries."
Entitled "No Permission to Emigrate from Palestine," the fatwa reads: "There has been much talk in Palestine about emigration, especially among the young people, due to the difficult security and economic situation. This is being done in search of a better life abroad. Many are continuing to rush to the gates of the embassies and consulates of the Western nations with requests for visas in order to reside permanently in those countries.
"We hereby declare that emigration from the blessed lands is not permitted according to religious law. The people living in these areas must remain in their homes and must not leave them to conquerors. Those who abide by this ruling will perform an honorable deed and will support the Aksa Mosque."
However, the fatwa permits Muslims to travel abroad temporarily for study and work "as long as they are committed to returning and living in the blessed lands."
A recent public opinion poll conducted in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip showed that that 82.7 percent of the Palestinians are pessimistic regarding their conditions.
The survey, conducted by the Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies at An-Najah University in Nablus, also reported that 92% of respondents feel insecure because of the growing lawlessness in the PA-run areas. The pollsters questioned 1,361 Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and had a 3% margin of error.
 

sam04u

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Atilla89 said:
but it was you who brought it up - saying something about Arab economies could flourish if there wasn't any trade sanctions (which there aren't).
You're wrong on both counts. Banco55 brought up the middle-eastern economy.

Banco55 said:
You should know that a lot of the Israeli-Jews came from Arab countries and had to learn hebrew. Economically I guarantee you that the Arab-Israelis are better off then the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syria in terms of living standards. Unlike the Arabs the Israeli-Jews actually know how to build an economy. Take a look at their respective gdp per capita.
 

Crestwood's_G

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Re: Israel & Palestine

sam04u said:
- According to a Jewish general olmert plans on completely destroying all Arab jobs.
- Israel has certain streets that Arab-Israeli's may not enter. Whole streets, where these people can not enter. They are Jewish streets and towns.
- Most work-places speak only Hebrew, therefore older generations must learn new languages just to properly operate in the country. Therefore they can't even get proper Jobs. (They need to learn Arabic, Hebrew and now also English is part of the curriculum.)
- Mortechai Eluyuhad (the son of Chief Rabbi) whilst echoing his fathers message to Ehud Olmert said it would be justifiable to kill all the innocent Palestinians because they are responsible for the terrorists in the West Bank.

Mind you Israel illegally occupies their country. (Their reason ofcourse is that God promised them that land.) And they are responsible for over 4,000,000 Palestinian refugees throughout the world.
most workplaces here speak english...

and dont be getting confused with arabs and muslims...a lot of arabs are jewish and christian
 

banco55

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Re: Israel & Palestine

My point still stands that the Arab-Israelis have far more liberty and a considerably higher standard of living then the Arabs that live in backward shitholes like Egypt or Syria:

"That the Arabs remained loyal to Israel even during four Middle East wars was cited as proof that they were generally satisfied with their lot. As citizens of the state, the Israeli Arabs have the right to vote, own land, run their own schools and join labor unions. In the past 28 years, their illiteracy rate has plunged from over 80% to 15%, and their living standard has risen dramatically as the government brought paved roads, electricity, running water, technology and communications to once impoverished villages. Today the Israeli Arabs enjoy a standard of living that is not only considerably above that of the average Egyptian or Syrian but also higher than that of Israel's Oriental Jews."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,914023-9,00.html
 

sam04u

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Banco55, enough with your idiocy. How about the millions that have been driven out? How about the fact that they shouldn't be there in the first place? The prosperity of 13% of a population of Palestinians at the expense of the other 87% is not acceptable.

Why should any Palestinian be a refugee?
Why should Israel occupy the Palestinian peoples lands?
Why should Israel be allowed to deny their human rights and seperate them inbetween three regions? (They can not exit these regions, not even to reunite with their families.)
Why should Israel be allowed to indiscriminately kill Palestinians under the guise of anti-terrorism? (They have the right to kill any Palestinian because we as people don't stop them. No Palestinian living in Israel, Gaza or West Bank has a right to life under Israel. Today, if Israel shot and killed a child walking to school. Who will take them court? Who will hold them accountable for their actions?)


Listen to what you're saying, what you're justifying. This is fucking injustice.

The Chief Rabiis, The Generals, The Prime Ministesr. They all acknowledge and present views which say they have a right to kill any Palestinian they want, deny them Jobs, and deny their inherent right to return to their homeland. (Breaking international law, and universally accepted human rights.)
 

banco55

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Re: Israel & Palestine

sam04u said:
Banco55, enough with your idiocy. How about the millions that have been driven out? How about the fact that they shouldn't be there in the first place? The prosperity of 13% of a population of Palestinians at the expense of the other 87% is not acceptable.

Why should any Palestinian be a refugee?
Why should Israel occupy the Palestinian peoples lands?
Why should Israel be allowed to deny their human rights and seperate them inbetween three regions? (They can not exit these regions, not even to reunite with their families.)
Why should Israel be allowed to indiscriminately kill Palestinians under the guise of anti-terrorism? (They have the right to kill any Palestinian because we as people don't stop them. No Palestinian living in Israel, Gaza or West Bank has a right to life under Israel. Today, if Israel shot and killed a child walking to school. Who will take them court? Who will hold them accountable for their actions?)


Listen to what you're saying, what you're justifying. This is fucking injustice.

The Chief Rabiis, The Generals, The Prime Ministesr. They all acknowledge and present views which say they have a right to kill any Palestinian they want, deny them Jobs, and deny their inherent right to return to their homeland. (Breaking international law, and universally accepted human rights.)
You know my views on this. The fact is Israel exists they have the best army in the region, nuclear weapons and they are not going to commit national suicide. The Israelis allowing the return of millions of palestinians is about as likely as the jews being allowed to return to Baghdad (in the 1940's baghdad was about 1/3 jewish before they were driven out). The palestinians can either spend the next 100 years tilting at windmills or they can make the best deal they can with Israel and push for citizenship in the arab countries where there are camps. The same arab countries who are supposedly so concerned with the plight of the palestinians.
 

sam04u

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Re: Israel & Palestine

I know your views. I read them constantly because although you are quite biased you make very good points.

But there are some things which are not being adressed. If you read about Yasser Arafat's proposal you would see that it was quite plausible and fair. He asked only for a strip of land that connected Gaza, The West Bank and Israei- Arabs. Now is that too much to ask for? People in Gaza need a right to move/conduct business in the west bank. You can't create a country when they are literally seperated by huge walls.

Also the unadressed issue of lands occupied since 1948, they are also illegal. The Jewish settlements in West Bank (also illegal, since they occupy the arable lands and the lands south of Jerusalem.)

Even if the Palestinians decided. "Well give up our rights, we'll accept that you've taken the country. We don't care, we want to be a country."

They would still be seperated between three states. They would still be uncompensated for the land and homes they've lost. They would still not have proper access to Jerusalem as was outlined in the resolution which lead to Israel's indpendance. They would still not be allowed to reunite with their family in Israel, and instead be further driven out.

Even if they surrendered their inherent rights. They still have no rights. Even if only 1 terrorist remains in Palestine. Israeli rabbi's and generals can justify killing all the Palestinian people to stop that 1 terrorist.

Think about it. There is no favourable outcome for the Palestinians.
 

BritneySpears

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Why should Israel reconsider Arafat's proposal, a known terrorist leader. He was the reason why all peace accord have failed, his greed and arrogance. The madrid, oslo, camp david peace efforts all failed because of arabs greed to grab more lands. Take it or leave it what Israel generously offered to you. Beggar cant be choosers. :D
 

nathan71088

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Re: Israel & Palestine

sam04u said:
Banco55, enough with your idiocy. How about the millions that have been driven out? How about the fact that they shouldn't be there in the first place? The prosperity of 13% of a population of Palestinians at the expense of the other 87% is not acceptable.

Why should any Palestinian be a refugee?
Why should Israel occupy the Palestinian peoples lands?
Why should Israel be allowed to deny their human rights and seperate them inbetween three regions? (They can not exit these regions, not even to reunite with their families.)
Why should Israel be allowed to indiscriminately kill Palestinians under the guise of anti-terrorism? (They have the right to kill any Palestinian because we as people don't stop them. No Palestinian living in Israel, Gaza or West Bank has a right to life under Israel. Today, if Israel shot and killed a child walking to school. Who will take them court? Who will hold them accountable for their actions?)


Listen to what you're saying, what you're justifying. This is fucking injustice.

The Chief Rabiis, The Generals, The Prime Ministesr. They all acknowledge and present views which say they have a right to kill any Palestinian they want, deny them Jobs, and deny their inherent right to return to their homeland. (Breaking international law, and universally accepted human rights.)
You seem to have all these BIG questions for Israel. So lets just put Israel aside as a muderous and thieving nation with no good intentions.

Now I have these questions:

How can Palestine hope for peace when their actions reflect their refusal to accept Israel's right to exist?

Would YOU accept co-existance between Palestine and Israel?

Would Palestine accept co-existance between Palestine and Israel?
 
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Re: Israel & Palestine

I have some big questions too.

* What the fuck do you morons think you're doing? Seriously, what is this ever going to achieve? I say both teams on here should meet up and throw rocks at each other, sort it out the good old fashioned way (hah hah hah, get it, futile, fucking futile).

* Do you seriously think kids are going to stop throwing rocks at tanks and pretending they're hardcore, just because you won some argument on the internet by quoting bullshit "sources" that have all the credibility of my left nut on the topic of quantum physics?

Edit: you see, I've got it all figured out, your propaganda is bullshit. Those kids in australia that drop rocks off bridges on cars, this is exactly the same shit. You don't see people here though inventing some holy war over kids dropping rocks through car windows though, so why does that shit fly over there?

They should discipline their children and teach them to respect the property of others, including tanks. Sure, maybe the kids are pacifists or some shit and don't like tanks being around, but fuck 'em, two wrongs don't make a right. If I caught my kid doing anything like that, I'd give 'em a stern talking to, that's what I'd do. None of those, oh the jews started it bullshit. It's juvenile, and reflects poorly on everyone, time to stand up and take responsibility for your actions, you little rock throwing fucks.
 
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S1M0

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BritneySpears said:
Why should Israel reconsider Arafat's proposal, a known terrorist leader. He was the reason why all peace accord have failed, his greed and arrogance.
Brilliant, again with the idiotic statements.

To clear things up, prove that arafat was a known terrorist leader. I doubt you will. Second, the peace accords failed because of the infadeh (or riot, whatever) that Israeli president Olmert caused by walking to the temple mount.

If you want to express your hatred for the arab people, at least come up with some real facts and educated statements. Give the people here some credit.
 

S1M0

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nathan71088 said:
You seem to have all these BIG questions for Israel. So lets just put Israel aside as a muderous and thieving nation with no good intentions.

Now I have these questions:

How can Palestine hope for peace when their actions reflect their refusal to accept Israel's right to exist?

Would YOU accept co-existance between Palestine and Israel?

Would Palestine accept co-existance between Palestine and Israel?
Just a totally unrelated question.

In your support for Israel, its founding and its current state, do you support the viewpoint ,and the extent of that viewpoint, that Britney Spears/Indian Princess/AryanBeauty presents to the forum?

Just curious.
 
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S1M0 said:
Just a totally unrelated question.

In your support for Israel, its founding and its current state, do you support the viewpoint ,and the extent of that viewpoint, that Britney Spears/Indian Princess/AryanBeauty presents to the forum?

Just curious.
Not totally unrelated, you're a liar.
 

S1M0

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Re: Israel & Palestine

ogmzergrush said:
I have some big questions too.

* What the fuck do you morons think you're doing? Seriously, what is this ever going to achieve? I say both teams on here should meet up and throw rocks at each other, sort it out the good old fashioned way (hah hah hah, get it, futile, fucking futile).

* Do you seriously think kids are going to stop throwing rocks at tanks and pretending they're hardcore, just because you won some argument on the internet by quoting bullshit "sources" that have all the credibility of my left nut on the topic of quantum physics?

Edit: you see, I've got it all figured out, your propaganda is bullshit. Those kids in australia that drop rocks off bridges on cars, this is exactly the same shit. You don't see people here though inventing some holy war over kids dropping rocks through car windows though, so why does that shit fly over there?

They should discipline their children and teach them to respect the property of others, including tanks. Sure, maybe the kids are pacifists or some shit and don't like tanks being around, but fuck 'em, two wrongs don't make a right. If I caught my kid doing anything like that, I'd give 'em a stern talking to, that's what I'd do. None of those, oh the jews started it bullshit. It's juvenile, and reflects poorly on everyone, time to stand up and take responsibility for your actions, you little rock throwing fucks.
Ah finally, someone who actually shares a logical viewpoint:

Each opposing party is just as bad as each other, because each opposing party has its share of extremists. Extremism = the situation we have here in the middle east.
 

S1M0

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Re: Israel & Palestine

ogmzergrush said:
Not totally unrelated, you're a liar.
okay, okay, somewhat related. Happy now? :)
 

Atilla89

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Re: Israel & Palestine

S1M0 said:
To clear things up, prove that arafat was a known terrorist leader. I doubt you will. Second, the peace accords failed because of the infadeh (or riot, whatever) that Israeli president Olmert caused by walking to the temple mount.
Starting up the PLO a terrorist organisation would be a good start. Stealing millions of $ which was meant for aid to the Palestinian people also reflects negatively on him.

BTW, I never knew that Judaisms most holy site would be restricted to the Israeli President (note the sarcasm). Places such as these should be open to all.
 

onebytwo

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Atilla89 said:
Starting up the PLO a terrorist organisation would be a good start. Stealing millions of $ which was meant for aid to the Palestinian people also reflects negatively on him.
which is why he won a nobel peace prize. i dont like it when israeli's criticise and concern themselves with the internal affairs of the PLO when the predicament the palestinians are in was/is caused largely because of israels existence
 

Atilla89

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onebytwo said:
which is why he won a nobel peace prize. i dont like it when israeli's criticise and concern themselves with the internal affairs of the PLO when the predicament the palestinians are in was/is caused largely because of israels existence
More like the Palestinians rejecting a state in 1948...BTW, what's wrong with criticizing a group, there is such a thing called free speech in Israel and obviously Australia. Also why do you even bother trying to defend a terrorist like Arafat?
 

Born2baplacebo

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Re: Israel & Palestine

Listen to this song by Silverchair, called Isreali's Son

Hate is what I feel for you,
And I want you to know that I want you dead.
You're late for the execution...
If you're not here soon, I'll kill your friend instead.

All the pain I feel
Couldn't start to heal
Although I would like it to

I hate you and your apathy.
You can leave, you can leave, I don't want you here.
I'm playing this pantomime,
But I don't see you showing any signs of fear.

All the pain I feel
Couldn't start to heal
Although I would like it to
This time I'm for real
My pain can not heal
You will be dead when I'm through

[Chorus]

Pain and execution
Put your hands in the air
Put your hands in the air
The air... yeah

I am, I am Israel's son
Israel's son I am
Put your hands in the air
Put your hands in the air


Find the revelance.
 

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