isreali- paleistine (3 Viewers)

[bigboyjames]

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[bigboyjames]

o you have got to be kidding me...go watch fox news
thats it? if youre going to use wit to avoid an argument then at least do it with some sophistication

go open youre ears and eyes to whats really happening..please, please quote some stupid 'academic' about why you wouldnt classify some palestinians as terrorists? enlighten me please

whats the point of debating with you when you clearly think that Israel is innocent, hasnt killed innocent people and think that the Palestinian are terrorists.
im not going to waste my time when its very clear that your the diluted fuckwit. just like most people on this board.

go watch cnn. fucking israeli appeaser.

 

[JaredR]

Whats the point of debating with you, bigboyjames when you clearly think the Palestinians are innocent?

Palestinian appeaser.

You attack Jenzi for something you're blatantly engaged in! The only difference is Jenzi is right...

 

[ChockoRepublic]

Whats the point of debating with you, bigboyjames when you clearly think the Palestinians are innocent?

Palestinian appeaser.

You attack Jenzi for something you're blatantly engaged in! The only difference is Jenzi is right...

And you're an Israeli appeaser. See how the appeasing game doesn't work?

 

[JaredR]

And I didn't claim to be anything but.

 

[ubernuton]

And I didn't claim to be anything but.

no you not an apeaser your a peice of fuckin isreali mudering scum you and your fuckin country have been responsable for many of the biggest atrocitys of the last hundred years and no one trys to stop u because of one of the biggest atrocity if the last hundred year

by the way just because i'm anti-isreali don't mean i'm anti-jew

 

[bigboyjames]

no you not an apeaser your a peice of fuckin isreali mudering scum you and your fuckin country have been responsable for many of the biggest atrocitys of the last hundred years and no one trys to stop u because of the biggest atrocity if the last hundred year

by the way just because i'm anti-isreali don't mean i'm anti-jew

watch him call you anti-Semitic. lol. its so predictable these days.

 

[jenzipoo]

whats the point of debating with you when you clearly think that Israel is innocent, hasnt killed innocent people and think that the Palestinian are terrorists.
im not going to waste my time when its very clear that your the diluted fuckwit. just like most people on this board.

go watch cnn. fucking israeli appeaser.

wow people we have a mind reader...he knows exactly my viewpoint on such huge issues as the ones listed above

cmon, how about you try not snap into autokill when you see some sort of israel defence and rather engage in a debate so that we can all hear each other's opinions about such issues in a contained forum and maybe learn a bit

o and cnn is slightly more palestinian loving than israel..so maybe stick to the fox news call

 

[jenzipoo]

...no one trys to stop u because of the biggest atrocity if the last hundred year

i know spelling and grammar isn't your forte but i don't really understand the line above

 

[bigboyjames]

wow people we have a mind reader...he knows exactly my viewpoint on such huge issues as the ones listed above

cmon, how about you try not snap into autokill when you see some sort of israel defence and rather engage in a debate so that we can all hear each other's opinions about such issues in a contained forum and maybe learn a bit

o and cnn is slightly more palestinian loving than israel..so maybe stick to the fox news call

ok. should Israel exist and why.

 

[ubernuton]

i know spelling and grammar isn't your forte but i don't really understand the line above

i am implying that no one can be anti-isreali because of the holocaust(in my mind in the top ten bigest atrocitys of the last hundred years)

 

[jenzipoo]

ok. should Israel exist and why.

this is a big question that will spark a nice debate im sure but my answer is yes.

i feel that the jews of the time had a legitimate concern for their safety, one that would warrant the initiation of zionist ideologies which stemmed from the search of a homeland for the jewish people. one where they could practice their judaism freely, not walk down the street and face constant verbal and physical abuse, where their children werent ridiculed because of their religious beliefs and they could run a business in a fair trading environment and not be discriminated based on their religion. This was how zionism was created and to be honest i feel that the jews of our time have that same legitimate reason

Wants everything started happening and Herzl held his meetings to gather support and enlighten others about the situation the Jews were facing in europe and the world, the land was bought from the land owners. even though the jews of the day owned this land they were still under british rule and required the world's countries to vote on its existence in the UN. I think whats key here is that Israel was ready and willing to accept the borders defined by the UN. There was no intention of war or expansionism, especially considering that most of the population were Holocaust survivors and they barely had any weapons to fight with.

The War of Independence was launched by the Arab states surrounding the newly found country. Their armies told Palestinians to leave their houses for safety during the war and assured them that once they demolished the 'israeli army' they could return to their homes. There are other cases where Palestinian families did not leave their homes and were asked by Israelis to leave either because of the danger or because they were going to attack the area the next day and didnt want any civilians to remain. Unfortunately war brings out the worst in every human being and there were a few isolated incidents of horrid abuse or misuse of power which has been reported and spoken about by israel in the past and all incidents have received apologies from the government and army. tell me when any arab state has done that?!

As we know Israel was victorious in this war and had conquered all of land as we know today as well as the upper region of the sinai desert. This was later returned in a peace treaty with Egypt.

The question now arises why didnt Israel now retreat back to those '48 borders or most rational thinking people question why they dont retreat to their '69 borders. Why I say rational thinking is because no body could ever expect Israel to return all the land that they conquered in a war that was waged against them by so many armies at once. One which was started to anhilate them after they were happy to receive any piece of land and were happy with the small, segregated Israel that the UN voted on and the Brits gave them.

The 69' borders is where we can start talking. These are basically withdrawing from Gaza (which has already happened and look where it got everyone!), the west bank (which for israel can be a tricky situation in terms of the number of its citizens living in these areas and because of the proximity of palestinians to their major towns and cities), East Jerusalem (again the proximity issue as well the religious issue) and the Golan Heights (this is more of a bargaining tool with Syria but also has a lot of Israelis living in the region)

so to sum up yes i think israel has a right to exist.

please would you answer the question with reasons

 

[bigboyjames]

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this is a big question that will spark a nice debate im sure but my answer is yes.

i feel that the jews of the time had a legitimate concern for their safety, one that would warrant the initiation of zionist ideologies which stemmed from the search of a homeland for the jewish people. one where they could practice their judaism freely, not walk down the street and face constant verbal and physical abuse, where their children werent ridiculed because of their religious beliefs and they could run a business in a fair trading environment and not be discriminated based on their religion. This was how zionism was created and to be honest i feel that the jews of our time have that same legitimate reason.

Wow dude. What a reason to take over Palestine. JEWS HAD A PROBLEM IN EUROPE….do you remember? Not in the Middle East. Certainly not in Palestine.

Wants everything started happening and Herzl held his meetings to gather support and enlighten others about the situation the Jews were facing in Europe and the world, the land was bought from the land owners. even though the Jews of the day owned this land they were still under British rule and required the world's countries to vote on its existence in the UN.

Hold on a sec. let’s get everything into context and get the facts correct. 1. Jews never owned shit.

Now, after the request from the English federation of Zionist for a Jewish homeland in Palestine was grated it was well and truly known by the British elite that more than 85% of Palestine were Palestine Arabs and less than 1% were Jewish. This is at the time of 1917. Now the British were all so generous in offering land far away from her shores, while at the same fucking period she was far from open armed in welcoming Jewish refugees to her own shores. Now, it is not so insignificant that the geographical location of this new British sponsored Jewish homeland lay in one of the most strategic areas along the main artery of the post 1914 British Empire, in a sensitive position along the route to India as well as in relation to the newly won Arab petroleum lands of the Ottoman Empire.
Not to forget at the time for a Jewish home land had nothing to do with the treatment of Jews were getting in Europe but a Jewish minority pro Britain would give the British a strategic possibilities of enormous importance in the future of the middle east region.

I think whets key here is that Israel was ready and willing to accept the borders defined by the UN. There was no intention of war or expansionism, especially considering that most of the population was Holocaust survivors and they barely had any weapons to fight with.

OMFG, we have a genius here. “claps” Of course they would be ready to accept the fucking borders. UN awarded the Jews 55% of the land of Palestine even though their current holdings totaled only about 6% and their population was only about 35% (608,000). Now this is from 1% in 1917 to 35% post world war 2. These weren’t Jews from Palestine. These were fucking immigrants the British didn’t want and were dispatched to Palestine. survivors of the holocaust. why the fuck arnt they surviving the the new pro Jewish Europe?? Post WW2, Palestinians had a population of 1,237,000. The plan also gave the most fertile lands to the Jews but the mountainous regions to the Arabs.

In their War Of Aggression Of 1948 the Jews took additional Arab lands bringing their total holdings to about 75% of Palestine which they kept and never gave back.

Even though this additional land was illegally gained in violation of the Hague Regulations (1907) and the UN Charter (1945) which both included the basic legal principle that it is illegal to acquire territory by force, these new boundaries soon became the “official” boundaries of the new State of Israel.

Simply, why couldn’t there be Israel in Europe. Heck, why didn’t they give a piece of land from Germany to the Jews. Why Palestine?

What good has the state of Israel done? Shit all. Only caused problem in other countries and in their own. The list is endless from War crimes, International terrorism, political corruption by the Jewish Lobby, defamation of character to all critics of Israel, Jewish racist ideology, worldwide instability, growing Western fascism, American debt & inflation, are additional reasons why Israel should not exist.

Israel is bound to die a natural death sooner or later. It cannot survive because of demographic factors i.e. the massive growth in the Palestinian population in the territories and Israel. They cannot survive because sooner or later the US will recognize that Israel is a liability threatening its wider interests in the region.

 

[jenzipoo]

i am implying that no one can be anti-isreali because of the holocaust(in my mind in the top ten bigest atrocitys of the last hundred years)

no youre implying that israel was created because of the holocaust. zionism and its ideologies were created long before the establishment of israel. the holocaust was only a catalyst because it brought to the forefront the immediate requirement for a jewish state. when the rest of the world rejected the survivors then the requirement for the creation of israel was of utmost importance.

yes the holocaust was one of the worst attrocities of all time but this doesnt have to correlate with being anti israel. there still are people who speak out against israel, including yourself, arent really saying we cant say this because the holocaust happened. because they say it anyway.

to be honest..jews around the world and in israel, as well as non jews who are supporters of israel, will say that its because of the holocaust that israel needs to be here. what they mean is that it is because of the mass destruction, death, survival and then rejection from their homes and other places that required a jewish state. people are saying 'look what happened...never again will jews be left stranded like that'
and dont say to me what was was because anti semitism is just as rife

 

[JonnoisBored]

some people here have been brainwahsed so much from the media htey actually now think palestinians are terrorists.

fucking oath, what has happened to our education system.

that would explain this:

go watch cnn.

and this:

go watch fox news.

 

[jenzipoo]

.
Wow dude. What a reason to take over Palestine. JEWS HAD A PROBLEM IN EUROPE….do you remember? Not in the Middle East. Certainly not in Palestine.

lets not forget a Jewish presence in the land for over 2000 years (apart from the times they were exiled but returned years later) and the land being promised to the Jewish people by G-d. It is the historic birthplace of the Jewish people, the land promised to Abraham and the site of the Jewish holy temple. It is embedded in Jewish prayer and is the cornerstone of Judiasm. The land known as Israel today and its surrounding regions have never enjoyed independent existence. It had the Romans, the Mamalukes, the Turks, the Brits.
Now i know people believe we should not bring religion into this. But people accross the world use religion as an excuse for many things, some even willing to die for it. Jerusalem and Eretz Yisrael are mentioned throughout the Torah and is the most important region to the Jewish people.


On July 24, 1922, the 52 governments of the League of Nations formally recognized and endorsed the British Balfour Declaration calling for “reconstituting….a national home for the Jewish people” in the land with which that people enjoyed “historical connections.” Twenty-five years later, the United Nations (successor body to the League of Nations) validated this title with the partition plan, dividing the British Mandate in the area into two states—one Jewish, one Arab. The Arab leadership violently rejected that solution, but after Israel’s bloody war for Independence the UN recognized Israel as a full member state in 1949. (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...does_israel_have_a_right_to_exist_does_the_us)

Hold on a sec. let’s get everything into context and get the facts correct. 1. Jews never owned shit.

Now, after the request from the English federation of Zionist for a Jewish homeland in Palestine was grated it was well and truly known by the British elite that more than 85% of Palestine were Palestine Arabs and less than 1% were Jewish. This is at the time of 1917. Now the British were all so generous in offering land far away from her shores, while at the same fucking period she was far from open armed in welcoming Jewish refugees to her own shores. Now, it is not so insignificant that the geographical location of this new British sponsored Jewish homeland lay in one of the most strategic areas along the main artery of the post 1914 British Empire, in a sensitive position along the route to India as well as in relation to the newly won Arab petroleum lands of the Ottoman Empire.
Not to forget at the time for a Jewish home land had nothing to do with the treatment of Jews were getting in Europe but a Jewish minority pro Britain would give the British a strategic possibilities of enormous importance in the future of the middle east region.

first of all please provide the web links of all quotes you give.

secondly..yes they did buy the land. the land was owned by absentee landowners in turkey, Spain and other parts of the middle east or european region. it is known that absentee landowners have caused all typed of problems throughout history (ie not thinking of the people and rather of their pockets) but either way land was bought. there are numerous counts of people living peacefully side by side, jews and arabs, helping each other with farming and other things. i have personally spoken to someone who migrated to australia from israel after having to leave russia due to the anti semitism faced there. she told me her whole family was killed in russia in a pogrom and she moved to israel in the 2nd aliyah. her best friend was her arab neighbour. this all changed when the local mullah told them that jews were pigs blah blah blah.

despite owning parts of the land, they still required the british, who had a mandate over the land at the time (not a very strange thing for the time), to allow them to take over the land.

please dont quote population percentages because historians are divided over the exact figure. they all agree that jews were in the minority but the zionist feelings of the time was we need to rescure as many Jews as possible to safety and they owned the land. its just like you own your house, you are allowed to have as many people in your house as you want. there were no rules, laws, or a government at the time to stop mass construction on owned land.

o and i can promise you that the Brits were not open armed in allowing mass Jeiwsh immigration onto its own shores at the time.

OMFG, we have a genius here. “claps” Of course they would be ready to accept the fucking borders. UN awarded the Jews 55% of the land of Palestine even though their current holdings totaled only about 6% and their population was only about 35% (608,000). Now this is from 1% in 1917 to 35% post world war 2. These weren’t Jews from Palestine. These were fucking immigrants the British didn’t want and were dispatched to Palestine. survivors of the holocaust. why the fuck arnt they surviving the the new pro Jewish Europe?? Post WW2, Palestinians had a population of 1,237,000. The plan also gave the most fertile lands to the Jews but the mountainous regions to the Arabs.

youre contridicting yourself sayign they didnt own land now they owned '6%' then the british opened their doors to the jews so why would they need israel...o but now "these were fucking immigrants the British didn’t want"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png
the jews got the negev as the majority of the partition!! yes of course desert is fertile. would anyone here like to live in a desert? is that really the most fertile region to live in? o lets all go live in the centre of australia..how much fun

also while you decide to look at the map instead of copying some anti israel propoganda, maybe also look at the other piece of land partioned to the jews..notice how theyre split up? the jews were only happy to receive the land despite the troubles that would be faced in reaching each other not because they feel that they were stealing from the palestinians but because they were happy that when the whole fucking world rejected them after the holocaust they now have a safe haven..or so they thought

In their War Of Aggression Of 1948 the Jews took additional Arab lands bringing their total holdings to about 75% of Palestine which they kept and never gave back.

the war of independence was initiated by the arab naions in rejection of the UN partition plan.
its a fucking pathetic attitude to have to think that we can wage war on a tiny nation, have them embarresingly defeat us and then say yeah dont worry about it..have all the land back

Even though this additional land was illegally gained in violation of the Hague Regulations (1907) and the UN Charter (1945) which both included the basic legal principle that it is illegal to acquire territory by force, these new boundaries soon became the “official” boundaries of the new State of Israel.

the UN and the world has now recognised Israel for its post 48' war borders (the green line) If you were going to discuss borders then discuss the post 67' war borders. everyone else has moved on because it becomes your opinion against ours. o and if were going to bring in international law then discuss the countless violations that have been broken by hezbollah, fatah, hamas and other arab groups/nations

Simply, why couldn’t there be Israel in Europe. Heck, why didn’t they give a piece of land from Germany to the Jews. Why Palestine?

What good has the state of Israel done? Shit all. Only caused problem in other countries and in their own. The list is endless from War crimes, International terrorism, political corruption by the Jewish Lobby, defamation of character to all critics of Israel, Jewish racist ideology, worldwide instability, growing Western fascism, American debt & inflation, are additional reasons why Israel should not exist.

Israel is bound to die a natural death sooner or later. It cannot survive because of demographic factors i.e. the massive growth in the Palestinian population in the territories and Israel. They cannot survive because sooner or later the US will recognize that Israel is a liability threatening its wider interests in the region.

hahah i dont need to boast about the achievements of israeli scientists, proffessors, academics, doctors and others. i think youd be shocked. all those 'problems' that you have listed are an absolute wank and is just plain racist. you live in australia idiot...a western country who is a proud supporter of america and israel. if you have a problem then move.

please keep telling yourself that the US and the west will give up on israel. most countries have recognised its right to exist. its done. your little voice isnt going to change anything..why not talk about real issues that face the conflict today?!
o and dont hold your breath for this 'natural death' please..

 

[bigboyjames]

hahah i dont need to boast about the achievements of israeli scientists, proffessors, academics, doctors and others. i think youd be shocked. all those 'problems' that you have listed are an absolute wank and is just plain racist. you live in australia idiot...a western country who is a proud supporter of america and israel. if you have a problem then move.

omg. im a racist because i have mentioned Israel is sort of fucked up. i even mentioned that in my post that this is what is wrong with pro-Israeli fuck wits.

and with the highlighted part......is that how low you have come. your going to tell me to leave Australia because i don’t have the same views as you and the govt on the Israeli issue? you should fuck off you pathetic intolerant fuck.

The rest of your post is in regards to what has happened after Israel. simply stating that Israel should be created because of European treatment is not a reason as to why Palestine had to give up its land and does not justify current apartheid going on in Palestine.

the conflict today is a problem from both sides. to say its all the Arabs fault is ludicrous. israel should go back to its original borders and make Jerusalem an international city. if that happens then i don't give a shit. SA is also partially to blame.

 

[kaz1]

lets not forget a Jewish presence in the land for over 2000 years (apart from the times they were exiled but returned years later) and the land being promised to the Jewish people by G-d. It is the historic birthplace of the Jewish people, the land promised to Abraham and the site of the Jewish holy temple. It is embedded in Jewish prayer and is the cornerstone of Judiasm. The land known as Israel today and its surrounding regions have never enjoyed independent existence. It had the Romans, the Mamalukes, the Turks, the Brits.
Now i know people believe we should not bring religion into this. But people accross the world use religion as an excuse for many things, some even willing to die for it. Jerusalem and Eretz Yisrael are mentioned throughout the Torah and is the most important region to the Jewish people.

I have a book that says god promised me Israel as well.

 

[nathan71088]

ok. should Israel exist and why.

It's good to see you thinknig and being passionate about your position. Complaceny of the mind is often a major cause of disaster.

We are all rational people here. I don't really want to go into the religious side of things because that always turns ugly, besides, that dance has been done way too many times already.

Should Israel exist... Now that question is not necessarily fair. It usually calls for the answer of "The Holocaust" while masquerading as something else. The question can be interpreted as:"Does Israel exist legally?", "Does Israel exist morally?" and a number of other ways. Like I said, we are rational people here. Morality is a question for the philosophy thread.

I place this in front of you. From a legal perspective: On the 13th of May 1948: a vote was taken as to whether Israel should become and independent country. 33 for, 13 against and 10 abstaining. The vote was made public to the world. By this Israel was created legally. If you disagree with this vote, think it was conspiratorial, maybe even a zionist scheme of control, you can't blame Israel...it didn't exist when the vote was taken, look to the reast of the world.

Put aside your biases for a second, what I have written are facts. Yes, I used the dangerous word - facts. "SOURCES" you will cry, "BIAS" you'll proclaim,, and this one I like because you don't even really know my position "ZIONIST APPEASER" but really, just try to be rational, please.

 

[JaredR]

Baby's mother killed by Jerusalem terrorist who was shot, but kept going

The Palestinian terrorist who killed three people in a stolen bulldozer in Jerusalem on Wednesday had been shot, but rallied despite his injuries, and launched a second rampage, taking the life of 33-year-old Bat-Sheva Unterman.

Unterman had been driving with her five-month-old daughter when Hussam Duwiyat plowed into their car. Duwiyat had passed out when he was shot by a policewoman and a security guard after killing Elizabeth Goren-Friedman, 54, and Jean Raloy, 68.

But he regained consciousness when someone threw a rock at him, and set off on his second killing spree, hitting the Untermans' vehicle. Bat-Sheva was killed instantly but her child was unharmed. Passers-by pulled the infant from the car moments before Duwiyat smashed into the vehicle for a second time.
Advertisement

Dozens of other people were wounded when the Palestinian construction worker deliberately plowed into a crowded bus and a string of cars on Jaffa Street in downtown Jerusalem.

Source: http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/998400.html

Footage of the incident is incredible.