Japanese Whalers (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Japanese people are so tiny, how do they fit the whales in their stomachs?

 

[Kwayera]

Bad joke at a bad time, Not-So-Bright.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

at least i'm not stupid.

 

[Kwayera]

As opposed to who?

 

[withoutaface]

The whalers in Japan - and Norway! - make me sick. I believe that whales are sentient creatures - it'd be like hunting humans, and we don't do that, do we?

And you know, there's no laws protecting the countless thousands of dolphins that are slaughtered every year in Taiji, Japan - they have NO proctection. When I have enough money, I'm joing to join the Sea Shepherd cruises to slash the nets that they herd the dolphins into shore with; better than Greenpeace, who do NOTHING.

Whales are not human beings, neither are dolphins. A species should have hunting of it restricted if it is endangered, but for no other reason.

EDIT: And if I linked you to some PETA footage of a slaughterhouse I'm sure you would feel sick as well, what's your point?

 

[Kwayera]

Whales are not human beings, neither are dolphins. A species should have hunting of it restricted if it is endangered, but for no other reason.

EDIT: And if I linked you to some PETA footage of a slaughterhouse I'm sure you would feel sick as well, what's your point?

No. Whales are not human beings. But I believe they are sentient, self-aware, just as we are - but if you feel the need to quantify it then look at it this way - the Japanese are poaching an endangered species, eating the meat and tacking the trophy heads up onto their walls, and calling it science.

PETA are lying, slaughtering bastards themselves. But animals in abattoirs are KILLED HUMANELY. They do not suffer for up to an hour while they slowly bleed to death or drown. Torture, last I checked, is not humane.

 

[withoutaface]

The fact that they hang them up on their walls and eat the meat is highly irrelevant, deer hunters do the same.

 

[danieljarvis]

The fact that they hang them up on their walls and eat the meat is highly irrelevant, deer hunters do the same.

her point was that is not part of science..

 

[Jiga]

I think a key word in this argument is sustainability, what the japs are doing with these whales isnt sustaintable, its as simple as that.... and what I cant believe is how their quota has doubled, they are blatantly abusing the system the result of which will be the extinction of particular species of whales, just so the japs can eat whale instead of rat....or dog....or tiger gentials....or shark fins or whatever other shit they eat .

I was also watching a program about exporting live fish to I THINK was Japan (Maybe China, dunno), and because these asian nations are that fussy (even though they eat wild rats and other dirty creatures) they want live fish, the animals are virtually tortured for 2 hours. The fish are exported in some new system that lets the fish survive out of water for like 2 hours........I equait this to drowning someone and then reviving them, then drowning them, and then reviving them...... the fish might survive the trip but they are more than likely in alot of pain and who knows what internal damage they have suffered.....just so they can have live fish with their rat (And someone might say 'fish dont feel pain', well their are arguments on both sides and no one conclusively knows whether they do or not.....and they do show some emotions, for eg when a tuna out of water flaps its tail quickly people originally thought this was them just thinking they were still in the water, but recently they discovered that it was actually because they are scared)

 

[porcelaine]

ok guys...whaling is wrong and im sure you would find most japanese people disgusted at the thought of eating bloody whale meat which is synonymous with times of national hardship. during times of poverty, and before trade began with the west, the japanese people relied on the sea for their food, as the geography didnt allow for large cattle farms. nowadays, most people our age have never tasted whale, so be careful not to generalise about japanese people, or asians as a whole, as japanese people do not eat rats, dogs or tiger parts, just as australians dont ride kangaroos or keep pet koalas.

whaling is an archaic and i believe unneccesary practice in these days, having been practiced for traditional and cultural reasons for centuries, by not only the japanese and norwegian, but also american natives, and settlers for that matter into the 19th century. it is a cruel and torturous act on a gentle creature. we don't need their oil anymore, and to be honest, who knows the entire truth behind the guise of scientific experiments. evrything has become so political that true intentions have been distorted.

so before you bash the japanese people, just thought you should know that many of them don't condone the actions of these whalers either.

 

[Jiga]

so before you bash the japanese people, just thought you should know that many of them don't condone the actions of these whalers either.

Well IMO the fact that the japanese have INCREASED their quote, virtually doubling it, shows that their is a great demand for whale in Japan.....so Im sure alot dont like it, but their must also be quite alot that demand it!

 

[Kwayera]

The fact that they hang them up on their walls and eat the meat is highly irrelevant, deer hunters do the same.

It is not irrelevant; I don't like deer hunting for trophy, either, particularly when the hunters take the head and leave the body to rot. But that's not my point. My point, which you keep ignoring for the sake of argument, is that the whales are killed inhumanely. They are not killed with a single bullet. There is no comparison between the two and I find it difficult to understand why you persist in, again, arguing what seems to be only for the sake of argument.

 

[Kwayera]

Well IMO the fact that the japanese have INCREASED their quote, virtually doubling it, shows that their is a great demand for whale in Japan.....so Im sure alot dont like it, but their must also be quite alot that demand it!

True - the killing stops only when the buying does, and it doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon.

 

[M.I.A-187]

Whale meat is quite a delicacy in Japanese cuisine.

Eating whales is like eating kangaroo. Only difference is nobody gets pissy at us when we hit a kangaroo with our cars.

And may i ask you...like how many of those magnificent creatures are left in the world today???? Also i am quite sure that having a harpoon stabbed into a whale, let it slowly bleed on the surface of the ocean, take it onto the boat while its still alive, cut its belly open and ripped out all the inards is much worse then simply accidentally hitting a kangaroo by a car.

As for the point, China don't kill whales. (well from what i know)

 

[leetom]

That's bullshit, leetom, and I don't think the Labor Government, heaven forbid it ever come to power, would do anything in addition to stop it. This is not a local Australian political issue - it is a WORLD political issue, and the world as it is today needs Japan as a trading ally more than it needs it as a non-trading entity. Geopolitics as an entity don't care much for environmental issues, particularly ones such as this, that can step on so many toes. The whales, unfortunately, take the brunt of this cautious approach.

Until the world sees this as an issue - not just the Australian government, you prejudicially brainwashed buffoon - not much is going to happen.

Don't pass the buck onto the world stage, you know this is a regional issue for us to deal with at a regional level. Your party is weak on this issue, crisis even, and cannot even achieve a basic dialogue with the Japanese in an attempt to resolve it.

Australia's trading relationships with its Asian partners are quite capable of overcoming the odd controversy. The trading relationship with Japan is immensely profitable for both nations and it would be a madman indeed who threatened to break off ties over some simple whaling disagreements. Australia does not benefit financially from Japan's illegal conduct in the Southern Ocean and has nothing to lose from openly condemning Japan, something long overdue. Our economic arrangements with Japan will not be under threat even with a swift federal rebuke.

The core problem is that giving into Japanese aggression is manifest within the Liberal Party. Be certain that Labor would put an end to such illegal activity as it did in 1943-45.

 

[Mountain.Dew]

heres my 2 cents...

looks like the Japanese, in their barbarity and curelty towards these animals, simply cant get enough of the Nanjing massacre...talk about white washing history text-books...

neway, we all have to realise that whaling has been part of Japanese culture for generations. before there was such a large population, there was no need for fisherman to have large ships and mechanical harpoons to kill whales. some japanese considered it a respected profession, to be able to wrestle with the might and size of whales and come out the victor with whale meat the prize. it is considered a delicacy because generations ago it was so hard to obtain.

now, sad thing is times have changed. yes, it is human greed. more people demand it, so humans had HAD! to find a way to get more whales. and, with demand rising, and if production continued as it was generations ago, whale meat would probably be so expensive, only the extremely wealthy and elite people of japan are able to afford it, yet it seems BUSINESSES want to make it more accessible to more people. hence, increase production. hence, more deadlier weapons, more cruel methods, to obtain more yield.

but, considering the brutality of japanese whaling, consider it as an example of HUMANITY's bruality and cruelty. everyone thinks that the japanese are evil because of these acts of extreme hedonism and anarchy. however, THINK AGAIN. think about the bull fighting in spain. isnt that considered cruel as well? we kill for pleasure? drag the poor animal around, parading him in the arena until it exhausts itself dead? what about the ROMANS and their collesium? gladiator fights...does this ring a bell? how about THE LOST GENERATION? or the british brutality in india while gandi was leading peaceful rallies? what about THE HOLOCAUST? has enough justice being done?

gentleman, ladies, humans...i do strongly go against the commerical japanese whaling, because they will hunt them to extinction, but under the impression because of brutality, please consider again...but, i do support japanese whaling as a cultural sport and art, because the whales can continue to breed and replenish, and secondly, because it is an integral part of japanese culture. this goes the same with norway and sweden, who also have whaling rooted in their scandinavian cultures.

sorry, im just rambling about absolute crap...many many flaws in here, so many holes, u can prolly fit in them.

im tired, and i do need sleep. this is prolly my mad fit for the day...

 

[Jiga]

Don't pass the buck onto the world stage, you know this is a regional issue for us to deal with at a regional level. Your party is weak on this issue, crisis even, and cannot even achieve a basic dialogue with the Japanese in an attempt to resolve it.

Well it is partly a global issue, those animals aernt the property of Australia.... they are resource of the world, and as a result their should be global interest in protecting them from a rogue state like Japan who continue to slaughter even endagnered whales in large volumes.

Australia's trading relationships with its Asian partners are quite capable of overcoming the odd controversy. The trading relationship with Japan is immensely profitable for both nations and it would be a madman indeed who threatened to break off ties over some simple whaling disagreements. Australia does not benefit financially from Japan's illegal conduct in the Southern Ocean and has nothing to lose from openly condemning Japan, something long overdue. Our economic arrangements with Japan will not be under threat even with a swift federal rebuke.

I dont think anyone has said we should break off ties with the Japanese, but what I have seen as the general consensus is that SOMETHING should be done to stop this masacre of whales..... how the hell can they use that loophole of 'research' when they now increase their quota (Was a scientific reason given for this) and when it is quite traceable that they are selling the meat!!!

Mountain.Dew, I agree with you in some parts, but in some I feel you are totally wrong. The "sport" or should I say slaughtering of whales is a brutal act, as is some of the other acts humaninty has done..... this cannot be covered up. And yes humanity has done other things that seem cruel, like in spain, but the two issues at hand are that they a firstly killing the whales in a primitive fasion, and that they are killing them at a rate that will almost certainly lead to the extinction of the animals. And here in lies the difference between other 'cruel' acts and the Japaneses. In relation to my first point, humans in general, or at least in civilised nations, kill food in the most humanley way possible. 100 years ago killing a whale with a harpoon was the only way it could be done, now I am quite sure their are better ways it can be done..... maybe providing less yield (Which should be ok, its only research remember ), but at least preventing the masacre of hundreds of whales using out dated and primitive teachiques. Every other industry has changed, like Pigs being electricuted, why doesnt the whale industry follow suit. For my second point, all of those 'brutal' acts you outlined havent lead to the extinction of animals. In the MODERN world, it is humaninities duty to ensure that vulnerable species of animals are protected.... and this is particularly the duty of 'civilised' nations like Japan. Yet, all we see them do is abuse the system, calling their slaughtering 'research', killing the animals in a primitive fasion that takes some time to gain its effect of death, we see them increasing their quota from its already unsustainable levels, and lastly we see them continue to kill even endangered species of whale showing complete disregard for their environmental duty to the world.

i do support japanese whaling as a cultural sport and art, because the whales can continue to breed and replenish

NO, whales take a long time from conception to sexual maturity...... the current rates of Jap whaling are NOT sustaintable and the whales CANNOT breed and replenish quick enough to replace those killed.

secondly, because it is an integral part of japanese culture. this goes the same with norway and sweden, who also have whaling rooted in their scandinavian cultures.

History has shown us with many things that a nations "culture" sometimes has to change to adapt to the current environment, if this wasnt the case we'd still be hanging people as witches, putting aboriginals into camps, or the US would still be massacring indians

 

[Mountain.Dew]

yes, Schoolies_2004, good call, thank you for picking out my flawed arguments, otherwise people who be running around under false precendences.

i was tired when i posted my reply, and as i said, the holes in my argument were so big, any human could prolly fit in them. and very comfortably, too.

just an addition to the 'cultural sport' thing, i was thinking perhaps hunting the whales NOT with the latest weaponry and machinery, but back to traditional methods (e..g harpoon), which is significantly more difficult...that way, i hope HOPE! that the whale population regrowth will far outstrip those unfortunate ones that, as i regret, must quench the thirst for the needs of a certain culture.

and also, this thing about culture...its gonna be very, very VERY hard for the conservative japanese to get rid of their engrained cultures. the ethics and morals of the samurai --> the code of chivalry in japan --> is still maintained today. and although i have to admit that even though many 'cultures' have adapted to more politically-correct beliefs, (yes, no more witch hunts, yes no more lost generation), japanese culture still survives today, surpassing the likes of the holocaust, slavery, lost generation, etc...let us hope that japan finally realise its duty as a powerful and responsible nation in the world to be aware of what detriments whaling as done, and to act accordingly.

 

[leetom]

There is a clear difference between whaling for cultural reasons and whaling for commercial reasons. There is an American Indian tribe who, as an annual celebration of their tribe's history and culture, rig up the traditional fishing vessel (nothing more than a longboat type thing powered by rowing men) and conduct a token whale hunt, with traditional harpoons and the sort.

As for the Japanese, fitting out modern warships with high-powered grenade-tipped mechanical harpoons is hardly a celebration of traditional Japanese culture. And if ever whaling was even apart of Japanese culture, it certainly never took place in the Southern Ocean.

 

[Jiga]

There is a clear difference between whaling for cultural reasons and whaling for commercial reasons. There is an American Indian tribe who, as an annual celebration of their tribe's history and culture, rig up the traditional fishing vessel (nothing more than a longboat type thing powered by rowing men) and conduct a token whale hunt, with traditional harpoons and the sort.

As for the Japanese, fitting out modern warships with high-powered grenade-tipped mechanical harpoons is hardly a celebration of traditional Japanese culture. And if ever whaling was even apart of Japanese culture, it certainly never took place in the Southern Ocean.

Yeah thats a good point. I think its quite obvious that the Japanese dont rely on whaling for cultural reasons, its purely for financial gain. They currently have a quote of like 900 whales, how many tonnes is that? At high prices per kg they are raking in the cash whilst a world resource is put on the brink of extinction.