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Liberal or Labor? (or other) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter gnrlies
- Start date
withoutaface
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Liberal, because I value freedom above all else, and more importantly, right wing policies work.
Gangels
Member
If i had to choose, Liberal. I prefer not to head in the direction of communism and Beasley is more incompetent than Paul Keating.
I think both sides have their faults, e.g Peter Costello! But Labor have heaps going for them cause they will wipe these new laws, or try to. I'm going to start my own party, called 'other parties suck party'. I will as the democrats say 'keep the Bastards honest' but actually do it. Truthfully, i'd be much worse than Bob Green probably so thats as bad as you can get. Me, i'm a potential dictator
I think both sides have their faults, e.g Peter Costello! But Labor have heaps going for them cause they will wipe these new laws, or try to. I'm going to start my own party, called 'other parties suck party'. I will as the democrats say 'keep the Bastards honest' but actually do it. Truthfully, i'd be much worse than Bob Green probably so thats as bad as you can get. Me, i'm a potential dictator
walrusbear
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Labor
social justice has fallen by the wayside
social justice has fallen by the wayside
Gangels
Member
You have a point.walrusbear said:
withoutaface
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Define justice.walrusbear said:
Is it just to steal money? Is it just to discriminate against certain groups in the name of ending discrimination for others?
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wheredanton
Retired
You are such a fundementalist. The sad thing is one day, due to the decline in the interest of the public sphere, you will probably end up involved in running the country in some way. All the skill ends up in the private sector because it pays more. We are seeing it right now. Severe shortage of skill at the state or federal level of politics on either side.withoutaface said:
What do you think of John Howard's family payment? Take and then redistribute to families? The point was made on insiders that this kind of policy is core ALP policy. Take and then distribute to whoever 'needs it'. Even worse is that it is middle class welfare, a true Liberal party person would be horrified and turn in his Liberal membership. Middle class welfare? Thats the ALP's job!
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wheredanton
Retired
You know that social justice has a different definition and that it cannot be reconciled with the other view of justice. So why ask it?withoutaface said:
Procedural justice would ensure that everyone was treated exactly the same regardless of anything. To make an employer pay more than he or she has to according to the market is unjust because he is playing by the procedural rules of the market.
Social justice is more concerned with abstract notions of fairness. Mainly because procedural justice, in the sphere of society, tends to destroy it. Treatment of people totally according to hard market principles eventually destroys society or the collective. Whether you recognize the notion of 'society' or not, to the great majority of people, it still is a great source of comfort and mutual benefit to everyone.
I honestly hope you don't take advantage of anything whereby you receive a benefit as a result of a policy supported by social justice. However I'm pretty sure you use Medicare and take advantage of student concessions.
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i'm more inclined towards liberal, but i don't like their conservative social values.
really, i like none of them
i think it also depends on whether it's state or national election, and what electorate you are in
really, i like none of them
i think it also depends on whether it's state or national election, and what electorate you are in
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iamsickofyear12
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I agree with everything Malfoy said.
transcendent
Active Member
Malfoy makes me want to vote the other way. Still, I didn't vote in the past so why bother voting in the future... oh that's right I'll get fined. How about neither. Labor heartland and now sort of partial to Liberals but I tend to dislike Liberal voters and the stigma attached to Liberal voters are worse than that of Labor IMO. GO Democrats!
erawamai
Retired. Gone fishing.
This thread is hilarious. I just hope none of the people out there will cry foul when they end up on the wrong end of the market, complaining about how 'unfair' this and that is.
It's nice for people like Malfoy to go bang on about the recognised benefits of the market. However it's myopic to ignore the less tasteful results of the market. Free market economics isn't perfect on those who believe it is need to take their blinkers off. We all know what a lack of criticism of dominant forms of government and thinking lead to. Stagnation of a whole generation of people who think deep and meaningful about the market includes pointing out that welfarism can create dependence (no shit?).
Those who forget the disadvantages of the totally free market tend to get lost in ideology land like the fundamentalist socialists who start to cry when anyone says ‘market’. What’s the difference between blinkered free market people who want to apply market principles to old people, foot paths and the whole of the medical system and a die hard socialist who refuses the recognize the benefits of the market? Nothing, they are both idiots stuck in their ideological and theoretical world, which unknown to them, isn’t the real world.
Both views of the world applied without recourse to the critiques of either view are flawed. Free market society is critiqued by Marxism and the idea of society. Socialist ideas are critiqued by free market ideas. Applying a world view without criticism is wrought with danger.
It's like suggesting that IR laws will be all good and that there will be no disadvantages to anyone ever as a result of the laws. They won't be good for all people. They will be good for some and bad for others.
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In any case I'd never vote for a party who, in modern times, used race to win an election.
It's nice for people like Malfoy to go bang on about the recognised benefits of the market. However it's myopic to ignore the less tasteful results of the market. Free market economics isn't perfect on those who believe it is need to take their blinkers off. We all know what a lack of criticism of dominant forms of government and thinking lead to. Stagnation of a whole generation of people who think deep and meaningful about the market includes pointing out that welfarism can create dependence (no shit?).
Those who forget the disadvantages of the totally free market tend to get lost in ideology land like the fundamentalist socialists who start to cry when anyone says ‘market’. What’s the difference between blinkered free market people who want to apply market principles to old people, foot paths and the whole of the medical system and a die hard socialist who refuses the recognize the benefits of the market? Nothing, they are both idiots stuck in their ideological and theoretical world, which unknown to them, isn’t the real world.
Both views of the world applied without recourse to the critiques of either view are flawed. Free market society is critiqued by Marxism and the idea of society. Socialist ideas are critiqued by free market ideas. Applying a world view without criticism is wrought with danger.
It's like suggesting that IR laws will be all good and that there will be no disadvantages to anyone ever as a result of the laws. They won't be good for all people. They will be good for some and bad for others.
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In any case I'd never vote for a party who, in modern times, used race to win an election.
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transcendent
Active Member
Like any Liberal voter cares when the economy is doing so well.
The Brucemaster
Member
Most definitely.erawamai said:
In terms of my ideology im Labor but they're pretty shit these days so i probably wouldn't vote for them. As to who i would vote for, no idea, no one really appeals to me at all, maybe family first just for shits...
As to my reasoning i guess im just a more left wing thinker. Although i do see the benefits of a free market system i think it needs to be carefully balanced against the interests of the nation (i.e. balance between free trade and protectionism).
I also support the welfare system to a certain extent, in that it should be used as a stepping stone to re-entering the workforce. I think removing all welfare would increase the number of unemployed.
Essentially id like to actually see a balance between the economic policies of the Liberals and the more socialist policies of Labor.
transcendent
Active Member
Tax cuts, tax cuts, get your tax cuts! If only they spent it on things that mattered.
ihavenothing
M.L.V.C.
I'm sorry, but in large part due to my Jewish roots I would never vote Liberal in my life, the concept of unionism relates to a concept of family and less emphasis on the divisive policies of the Liberals. With the Democrats who in large part would have more represented my political view, yet the current dominant faction in Labor at the moment. If gay marriage is ever going to happen, it will still take a leadership change, I'm hoping Anthony Albanese, Lindsay Tanner and Tanya Plibersek who I have written to and will hopefully push towards it.
I have no faith in the current Government under Howard, as being a student, working in the hopitality industry and under 25 automatically makes you feel belittled by the system from the current workplace law changes and VSU which was implemented just in time for my generation of students to be the most unexperienced and powerless yet. Just because the unemployment rate is going down, it pisses all over our basic workplace rights and more young workers will be sacked.
Without a doubt, Howard has definately had to be one of the worst Prime Ministers in this country since Menzies and has ridden on a bed of lies and corruption ever since he was elected and always slipped under the radar because now we have become too materialistic and economy-centric to give a damn about the atrocities this government has caused.
I have no faith in the current Government under Howard, as being a student, working in the hopitality industry and under 25 automatically makes you feel belittled by the system from the current workplace law changes and VSU which was implemented just in time for my generation of students to be the most unexperienced and powerless yet. Just because the unemployment rate is going down, it pisses all over our basic workplace rights and more young workers will be sacked.
Without a doubt, Howard has definately had to be one of the worst Prime Ministers in this country since Menzies and has ridden on a bed of lies and corruption ever since he was elected and always slipped under the radar because now we have become too materialistic and economy-centric to give a damn about the atrocities this government has caused.
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wheredanton
Retired
Free market people would prefer the people choose 'what mattered' and then spend it on that.transcendent said:
The Liberal Party represents quite a narrow sector of the population, and hence I don't believe it acts in the interests of the general public.
Which would lead me to support the ALP, if it were not for it being close to indistinguishable in policy terms. Cynical, incompetent traitors to the social democratic movement like Beazley, Iemma, Bracks, etc just add to the party's unelectability. The ALP's patheticness just adds to the public's perception of the political class as a bunch of cynical and dishonest freeloaders.
Who's left? I'm not convinced of the Green's depth of economic and social policy beyond environmental grandstanding. The Democrats are admirable in some respects but are basically irrelevant. I don't know who to vote for.
Which would lead me to support the ALP, if it were not for it being close to indistinguishable in policy terms. Cynical, incompetent traitors to the social democratic movement like Beazley, Iemma, Bracks, etc just add to the party's unelectability. The ALP's patheticness just adds to the public's perception of the political class as a bunch of cynical and dishonest freeloaders.
Who's left? I'm not convinced of the Green's depth of economic and social policy beyond environmental grandstanding. The Democrats are admirable in some respects but are basically irrelevant. I don't know who to vote for.