Muslim headscarves (2 Viewers)

[MoonlightSonata]

ah shit gave me a good laugh there.. what piss weak laws??

Ah, criminal laws against rape, indecent assault, intimidation?

 

[veterandoggy]

well, it isnt containable anymore

 

[withoutaface]

MS: The only issue I'd have with incest is that no contraception is foolproof, and you can hardly force somebody to have an abortion if they are carrying their siblings child.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

True -- it is a consideration in the risk of sex; the severity of the harm would be likely to be greater should the contraception fail.


Also personally I think that, where there is a family unit, there are certain roles that should not really be messed around with in case psychological problems ensue. Our repulsion to incest is probably a bit more than social taboo; sexual relations could disrupt the way families function. Certainly parental relations with offspring is an obvious no because there are clearly dire, observable results in those cases.

This justifiable prohibition has somewhat less weight when criticising offspring + offspring relations, but I still think that between immediate family members, there is an interpersonal bond that could be put in jeopardy by something so volatile as sexual relations. That is my theory at present anyway.

 

[physician]

Arrr yes... the beautiful hadiths.

TIRMZI et al
If a woman's conduct is mischievous or immodest, the husband has the right to beat her up but must not break her bones. She must not allow anybody to enter the house if her husband does not like him. She has the right to expect sustenance of her husband. (P 439)

First of all, Ive never read or heard of the Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) ever indulging in such action!... Nor does a reliable hadith exist which proves he ever beat his wives in such a manner.

Second of all, I dont see a chain of narrators, not even a narrator!

for example, a typical hadith from Sahih Al Bukhari would look something like this:

Narrated 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her): Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was shrouded in three Yemenite white Sahiliyya (pieces of cloth) of cotton, and in them there was neither a shirt nor a turban

Sahih Al bukhari and sahih Muslim are the most reliable. Although, as stated in the "Sahih Al Bukhari summarised version" "It has been unanimously agreed that Imam Bukhari's work is the most authentic of all the other works in Hadith literature put together....Religious learned scholars of Islam said concerning him: "The most authentic book after the Book of Allah (i.e. Al - Quran) is Sahih Al-Bukhari." "

Its also been reported that Imam Bukhari collected over 300,000 Ahadith and memorised 200,000 of which some were unreliable.

Out of the 300,000 he only chose approximately 7,275 with repetition and about 2,230 without repetition of which there is no doubt about their authenticity!

Not all Ahadith are authentic, nor is there a chain of narrators or a narrator to indicate who reported/narrated the Hadith u posted to back up its authenticity! I personaly Havnt read Tirmizi, not even Sahih Muslim, most of the Ahadith Ive read are from Sahih Al Bukhari (summarised version)... but so far Ive never come across such a hadith.

It also comes into conflict with what a Nigerian Islamic studies teacher once taught us in yr 8, that Islam only permit for a Husband to beat his wife with the tip of the clothes he was wearing (i.e the end of his sleeve or the like, which would hurt as much as beeing hit with a tissue/handkerchief)...however Ive never actualy read this hadith, nevertheless, the only other claim Ive heard being made by Mulsim sheiks, was that a husband could give his wife a small tap to indicate his frustration, although not enough to leave her bruised or hurt!

 

[Salima]

i agree that it is inappropriate to carry out this tradition in another country but we can't really ban it.

the muslims should assimilate with Australian society. the lebanese and turkish muslims don't wear headscarves. isn't the headscarf a tradition carried out by countries with ideals that women are inferior and should cover themselves up?

Just becuase a certain group of msulims tend not to wear it doesn't mean it isn't supposed to be worn. If you'd read anythign about hijab or that has been said in this forum you'd realise that it isn't traditional for any country. It has been law since the Prophet Muhammad was given the ruling by the angel gabriel (gods angel mesanger) from god himself. and it's not inapprapraite to carry a tradition out in another country. If this is so then the english who came here shouldn't have lived out hteir very english lives! We should be living hte aboribinal way of life then! as nomads!

 

[Salima]

I think if they are living in australia they should live by australian rules, if school rules state that headscarf is not allowed then its that simple. They shouldnt be allowed to wear it, couldnt the parents contact the school before their child enrolled and check the status of what the schools policy is first? and then send them to a differant school if it isnt allowed :S

Yes but if each school did thier own thing, then you'd have religious divides and even more cultural divids, and this would only lead ot more racism in our country and more things like the Cronalla race riot incident...which right now is onyl an incident and will stay that way.

 

[Salima]

There is nothing wrong with desiring a women. It is well ingrained in the male psyche. However, the free indugence in women is detrimental to their purity and righteousness.

Islam teaches one to channel ones desires. Marriage is a way to channel a mans and womans sexual and emotional desires, without them losing their purity and nobility.

PRECISELY! Like the new years celebrations recently. My group of friends, whom most are now muslim...had a party at one of our friends houses in the city, adn they wnet for a walk after the midnight fireworks. Then as they walked around, being halal, they saw many undesirable situations. I don't say things becuase all people desire intimacy, but the right kind is what I mean.
Anyway, so my friend told me that he saw a man being pleasured by a woman in the genital region (you know what i'm talking bout but i don't like the way people here say it so i'm describing it this way, the other way seems so grotesque)...and then they saw a woman with her shirt off, aagin pleasuring a man by having her breasts naked, but he didn't take his shirt off, only her. Everyone was extremely discussed. Most of this would be under the influence of alchohol. Discusting hting. (the grapes are what good for your heart not hte alcohol, so drink non-alchoholics wine, tastes better i think!)

This is how westerners celebrate then I don't wnat it. And if to turn a blind eye to these things and let such degenerate thigns happen and become everyday occurances and normal in our society, then I will never conform! I will wear my hijab, even burkha to make a point, with so much pride you'd be blown over adn pushed aside by it like that car ad! (you know the oen where the car's so big but small thing, you get me!)


Now this is why I wear hijab, and not mini skirts where men can easily place htere hadns up them! I wear full clothing, I am still stylish mind you. If you ask me there is more posssiblities in the more clothing you wear.

As Riqtay said, the idea is to keep both man and woman chaste. This is also the reason for lettign a man marry more than one wife, for man's lusts goes beyonds a woamns I think and desires always more than he can have, as reading memouirs of a geisha has taught me! A woman should never subject herself to a man as those woman did on the new years eve celebrations as I described. This is more slavery and oppression than anything islam could ever offer to a woman.

 

[sparkl3z]

so that people are not mislead, to bittersweet
half of turkey is not muslim anyway (i'd know, i'm turkish) and there are no rules that is there saying that you "HAVE" to wear hijab, it's not anywhere in the law, it's a republic country, and strictly religion has nothing to do with law, once you mix it up, you go to jail.
to salima
tradition or not, it's logic to wear short or long clothing, i don't wear a hijab, doesnt mean a guy is gonna attack me, as long as i wear appropriate clothing, i don't need religion or a "book" to tell me what to wear and i don't see why wearing one will protect you any more than not wearing one. Sure, if i wore a mini skirt i'm more vulnerable to comments or whatever from guys, so i don't wear one, it has nothin to do with religion, it's about what the person feels is right or wrong, if they can protect themselves then they can wear whatever they want.

 

[fb07]

sparklez, whilst i agree with what your saying, your wrong Turkey is about 97+ % muslim not half you probably get that impression cause the majority in the cities dont wear the headscarf. Other then that, i pretty much agree with what your saying. To me, the headscarf is not nesecary

 

[sparkl3z]

you see it that way, but i dont, 97% is over rated. when you look at it deep down it's only say 60 to 70 percent muslim, but i said half, because half of them SAY they are muslim, without doing anything muslim but SAYING they are muslim, because the people that think that way are uneducated.ur name is fb so i'm guessing your turkish too, one that supports islam, go and watch turkish tv for a bit, if they were TRULY islamic, they wouldnt dress that way, or have boyfriends that way or go to the beach that way, it's even more open than Australia, you're probably gonna say, what's clothing got to do with islam, well it does, don't ignore the facts, if ur a tru muslim you don't dress like that mate. not that i support it, but that's the way it should be if u say u are one.
back on the topic, i don't see why females have to hide themselves to protect themselves, there is no equity in that, if it was equal the males should go and cover their faces and body aswell then.

 

[fb07]

ahh you mean in THAT way
actually maybe i should p.m. you since it hasn't got much to do with the topic. On the topic, I think peoples intentions are a million times more significant then what they seem to show on the outside... I hate how some muslim girls would be all "Look at my headscarf" and then go and do stupid shit.

 

[veterandoggy]

yes, i must agree that i wouldnt want all muslim women to wear the headscarf because some wont exactly give islam a good picture, in regards to their actions and habits.

 

[fb07]

yes, i must agree that i wouldnt want all muslim women to wear the headscarf because some wont exactly give islam a good picture, in regards to their actions and habits.

thats what i mean .. i mean im not a bad person but i dont wear the headscarf its my own business and ill do it when and if im comfortable with t'he whole thing ... I hate it when girls go out do all this stuff then come back .. wear the headscarf for a couple of months .. think they've redeemed theirselves then take it off again .. what the hell?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

thats what i mean .. i mean im not a bad person but i dont wear the headscarf its my own business and ill do it when and if im comfortable with t'he whole thing ... I hate it when girls go out do all this stuff then come back .. wear the headscarf for a couple of months .. think they've redeemed theirselves then take it off again .. what the hell?

Muslim bender... go out and get wasted, fill the hijab with yager and do shots off the koran.

 

[fb07]

Muslim bender... go out and get wasted, fill the hijab with yager and do shots off the koran.

who rattled your cage

 

[Salima]

It's like indo TV. Muslim country, 88%, the highest muslim populated country. Their tv doesn't refelct this at all. The turkish tv must be the same, in the whole westernised version thingy. This is when you westernise everything, some times your religion, just to keep up and not be disgarded by the US.

 

[sparkl3z]

it's westernised, shows they are not muslim, that's beside the topic anyway, don't wanna get into that, but on this topic, i don't see the difference between wearing one and not wearing one, it's not going to help you any way by wearing one.

 

[veterandoggy]

it helps build self modesty and the like.

 

[sly fly]

you see it that way, but i dont, 97% is over rated. when you look at it deep down it's only say 60 to 70 percent muslim, but i said half, because half of them SAY they are muslim, without doing anything muslim but SAYING they are muslim, because the people that think that way are uneducated.ur name is fb so i'm guessing your turkish too, one that supports islam, go and watch turkish tv for a bit, if they were TRULY islamic, they wouldnt dress that way, or have boyfriends that way or go to the beach that way, it's even more open than Australia, you're probably gonna say, what's clothing got to do with islam, well it does, don't ignore the facts, if ur a tru muslim you don't dress like that mate. not that i support it, but that's the way it should be if u say u are one.

Wearing the headscarf isn't all there is to being a Muslim. People often forget that in Islam, there is inner hijab and outer hijab - inner hijab being the one that is more important. So if somebody doesn't wear the scarf but they are a good person, they give charity, they are patient, they practice forgiveness etc etc then they you can hardly say that they are not a true Muslim. People are not perfect. Whether somebody is a good Muslim or not is for God to judge, and we as Muslims should better ourselves before criticising others. I'm not saying that wearing the hijab isn't important, it is very important. But people often focus on the outer hijab at the expense of the inner hijab.