"Muslims are Masters of the world" - A Deluded drone and Propoganda (3 Viewers)

[The_Apprentice]

this thread title reminds me of Bonfire of the Vanites; "the master of the universe."


anyway, no comment.

 

[S1M0]

But...... you're an Arab?

NO!

Egyptians do not trace their ancestry back to the arabian pennisula and the nomadic arab tribes that wander around from place to place. If you were to determine their ancestry, it would stem to Egypt, not the arabian pennisula. Egyptians are NOT arabs.

Edit: Didn't thoroughly read posts. Now that i did however, i disagree entirely as to how you can label Ancient Egyptians as Arabs.

 

[S1M0]

Let me tell you what a lot of Copts say, and this is pretty typical of minority groups: 'The Ancient Egyptians pwned and were orsum. Christianity only made them cooler. After the Arab conquest, the place was screwy. I'm a Copt, therefore one of the people in who were screwed in the invasion.'

With regards to all of this:

I think it's annoying that modern people have such a disposition to compare themselves to ancient people. Historians playing lawyers not judges is dangerous - see the problems with Macedonia.

Firstly, the Ancient Egyptians = Ancient Arabs. Same culture, similar language. If one were to claim that one was a descendent of the Ancient Egyptians (as some do...), you'd really be claiming to be an Arab. But this is stupid because even if the Ancients were a distinct ethnicity, this would have already been wiped out by the Kushit/Saite/Persian/Intermediate Period/Byzantine homogenisations of the country, none of which had anything to do with the Arabs.

Ethnically, 1. the modern Egyptians aren't descendants Ancient Egyptians, and 2. if they wanted to say they are, they can only do so because Ancient Egyptian = Ancient Arab.

Secondly, it's funny that all these people who say that the Arabs wiped their heritage don't seem to actually care about the heritage. In Egypt, all these Copts hardly even go to church or learn Coptic, and there's a similar situation in Persia, Syria, etc etc. It's a bit whiny to say 'the Arab expansion killed me heritage!' and then not actually give a damn about that heritage at all...

Culturally, the modern Egyptians aren't descendants of Ancient Egyptians. What else is there other than culture and ethnicity?

So then, where did all the Egyptians go? Personally, i go to church, and i aim to learn Coptic at uni as soon as possible (probably after i finish my initial degree). I don't see how you can relate a people whose ancestors had a distinct culture to that of another people.

At the very least, i agree that native egyptians are a people who embrace an arabic culture, but genealogically are not arabs.

 

[S1M0]

Really, the only way to stop heritage from being destroyed is to practice it - the Jews did a great job with Hebrew; their language was essentially gone, so they started it up again. It is very possible that the same will happen to Bohairic Coptic if the Coptic community stops whining and starts acting positive.

Precisely my aim too.

 

[S1M0]

But the Copts were persecuted even more harshly under the Byzantines. Infact, they welcomed the Arabs because they were considered more tolerant. Infact the Copts were one of the many Egyptian groups that sided with the Arabs.

We were divided on whose side to give our allegiance too, with some Egyptians siding with the arabs, and some with the Byzantines.

Think of it this way, if we didn't embrace Arabic/Islamic rule, we wouldn't be as backwards as we are today.

 

[Osvaldo]

Muhammed killed people, got sick, and died. How can anyone cling on to the words of an ordinary person, who showed countless human faults? But then again, ancient arabs weren't a very bright people, so that explains it.

PS: Sorry if this offends anyone....

 

[sam04u]

Think of it this way, if we didn't embrace Arabic/Islamic rule, we wouldn't be as backwards as we are today.

No, you probably would have been systematically wiped out by the Byzantines, or otherwise forcefully converted by them. Then the copts (along with the other Egyptians) probably would have been used by the Byzantines to wage war against the Arabs. Which they would have won initially, untill reinforcements came. That would mean not only would many of the Copts have been persecuted by the Byzantines. But that even more would have faced death on the battlefield.

I don't see it ending anyway other than it did. Except that now there are still a significant amount of Copts, something which would have been less likely if Egypt wasn't under Arabian rule.

Egypt wasn't always backwards under Arabian rule. If you go back in History, you should be able to pinpoint the day (in modern times) where the clocks slowed down in Egypt and the rest of the Middle East.

 

[wrxsti]

Muhammed killed people, got sick, and died. How can anyone cling on to the words of an ordinary person, who showed countless human faults? But then again, ancient arabs weren't a very bright people, so that explains it.

PS: Sorry if this offends anyone....

and these faults happen to be?



This one really made me laugh

"How can anyone cling onto the words of an ordinary person?"

i wont say your an idiot, i wont say your retarded and i sure as hell wont point out your pathetic reasonings.

 

[S1M0]

No, you probably would have been systematically wiped out by the Byzantines, or otherwise forcefully converted by them. Then the copts (along with the other Egyptians) probably would have been used by the Byzantines to wage war against the Arabs. Which they would have won initially, untill reinforcements came. That would mean not only would many of the Copts have been persecuted by the Byzantines. But that even more would have faced death on the battlefield.

I don't see it ending anyway other than it did. Except that now there are still a significant amount of Copts, something which would have been less likely if Egypt wasn't under Arabian rule.

Egypt wasn't always backwards under Arabian rule. If you go back in History, you should be able to pinpoint the day (in modern times) where the clocks slowed down in Egypt and the rest of the Middle East.

What i said was based on the prosperity of western civilisation as opposed to Islamic/Arabic civilisation in this current day and age.

Edit: We still would've been able to keep our culture as opposed to having an Arab/Islamic one imposed on us if the Byzantines had kept control of Egypt.

 

[Osvaldo]

This one really made me laugh

"How can anyone cling onto the words of an ordinary person?"

i wont say your an idiot, i wont say your retarded and i sure as hell wont point out your pathetic reasonings.[/quote]

So I am right then.

 

[milkNcookies]

ur pathetic ,,, Try reading the 'Quran' then you will see what FAULTS he did ,,,lets just put it that way for now ...and if u cant read which i wouldnt blame u ,,,listen to some christian coptic sites on paltalk.

 

[xeuyrawp]

NO!

Egyptians do not trace their ancestry back to the arabian pennisula and the nomadic arab tribes that wander around from place to place. If you were to determine their ancestry, it would stem to Egypt, not the arabian pennisula. Egyptians are NOT arabs.

Edit: Didn't thoroughly read posts. Now that i did however, i disagree entirely as to how you can label Ancient Egyptians as Arabs.

haha. This is exactly what I mean. :rofl:

 

[wrxsti]

ur pathetic ,,, Try reading the 'Quran' then you will see what FAULTS he did ,,,lets just put it that way for now ...and if u cant read which i wouldnt blame u ,,,listen to some christian coptic sites on paltalk.

actually i do read the Quran...show me distinct evidence of his faults mentioned in the QURAN.

edit: and with verse/surah quoted so i can check that your anti-islamic and islamaphobic/racist websites have the correct information

 

[sam04u]

What i said was based on the prosperity of western civilisation as opposed to Islamic/Arabic civilisation in this current day and age.

S1M0, I rarely disagree with you but you must have misunderstood what I said. Regardless of whether or not the Arabs invaded Egypt when the Copts and the Ancient Egyptians welcomed them and offered to stand beside them. Arabs would still have taken control over Egypt, because the Byzantines (who were persecuting the Copts), would have used them to wage war against the Arab armies.

Which means that not only would Copts have been persecuted, have their culture and religion slowly disintegrate by Roman imperialism, and be used as fodder to fight an overwhelming Arab force in the Arabian peninsula. But at the end of all of that, Egypt would still have wound up under the control of Arabs.

Edit: We still would've been able to keep our culture as opposed to having an Arab/Islamic one imposed on us if the Byzantines had kept control of Egypt.

What gives you that impression? You do understand that the Copts (who were becoming Romanised like the rest of the Egyptians) were being persecuted by the Byzantines right? You do know that because their beliefs, according to the Byzantines were not "Christian enough", this made them victims of prejudice and murder. Why else would they invite the Arabs and not resist their armies? (To the point where the whole of Egypt was captured by a few thousand men.)

The Byzantines saw Egypt as nothing more than a farm for wheat, which they taxed heavily for protection. (Their protection was two battalions which were so inefficient, that an army a third of their size managed to overwhelm them easily.)

 

[wrxsti]

S1M0, I rarely disagree with you but you must have misunderstood what I said. Regardless of whether or not the Arabs invaded Egypt when the Copts and the Ancient Egyptians welcomed them and offered to stand beside them. Arabs would still have taken control over Egypt, because the Byzantines (who were persecuting the Copts), would have used them to wage war against the Arab armies.

Which means that not only would Copts have been persecuted, have their culture and religion slowly disintegrate by Roman imperialism, and be used as fodder to fight an overwhelming Arab force in the Arabian peninsula. But at the end of all of that, Egypt would still have wound up under the control of Arabs.


What gives you that impression? You do understand that the Copts (who were becoming Romanised like the rest of the Egyptians) were being persecuted by the Byzantines right? You do know that because their beliefs, according to the Byzantines were not "Christian enough", this made them victims of prejudice and murder. Why else would they invite the Arabs and not resist their armies? (To the point where the whole of Egypt was captured by a few thousand men.)

The Byzantines saw Egypt as nothing more than a farm for wheat, which they taxed heavily for protection. (Their protection was two battalions which were so inefficient, that an army a third of their size managed to overwhelm them easily.)

make a new thread; for this history stuff

 

[xeuyrawp]

S1M0, I rarely disagree with you but you must have misunderstood what I said. Regardless of whether or not the Arabs invaded Egypt when the Copts and the Ancient Egyptians welcomed them and offered to stand beside them.

My Coptic lecturer talked about this with me last night - she thinks (but would never say on the recorded iLecture) that one of the reasons the Copts preferred the Arabs to the Byzantines was because the Arabs were ethnically closer to the Byzantines, and thus 'looked' the same.

She also pointed out (as you have - and I didn't know this, thanks for bringing it up), that the Arabs of the time were far more tolerant than the Byzantines.

It's funny how the worst kind of violence people commit is actually to people less alien; civil wars between people of the same nation, relgious wars between people of the same broader faith, etc.

Edit:

make a new thread; for this history stuff

Yeah, NCA&P has no room for this history stuff!

In case you didn't notice, this is directly relevant. The Arabs invading Egypt is a case example for what they did all around the Middle East.

 

[S1M0]

One thing you still haven't answered:

How can you label the Ancient Egyptians as arabs when they both had distinctly different cultures?

 

[xeuyrawp]

One thing you still haven't answered:

How can you label the Ancient Egyptians as arabs when they both had distinctly different cultures?

lol, how can you label yourself a descendent of the Ancient Egyptian when you and them have different cultures?

If you're so sure they're different, have a read of Sinuhe in the original, and tell me why the northerners are treated as brothers. Or, maybe you could take a few photos of Copts versus Muslim Arabs, and you could point out the ethnic difference. Or, maybe you could show me some definitive ethnographic/logical tests which prove Coptic supremacy, etc etc?

Same culture (language, religion, values), same ethnicity (I'll need to find a link, but if you argue this point, you'll lose when I find it). If you want to argue the former point, I definitely will laugh at you. So I don't really see what you have to go on.

But I think you should face the fact that it's a pretty typical case of a bunch of people saying they're traditional descendents, when in fact they're not. You can't even form a coherent sentence in one of the dialects, let alone in earlier Egyptian, so I don't know why you're trying to defend it. It's like these third generation Asian kids who call themselves 'Chinese', when they can't even speak a word of the language. It's very confusing...

 

[S1M0]

lol, how can you label yourself a descendent of the Ancient Egyptian when you and them have different cultures?

If you're so sure they're different, have a read of Sinuhe in the original, and tell me why the northerners are treated as brothers. Or, maybe you could take a few photos of Copts versus Muslim Arabs, and you could point out the ethnic difference. Or, maybe you could show me some definitive ethnographic/logical tests which prove Coptic supremacy, etc etc?

But I think you should face the fact that it's a pretty typical case of a bunch of people saying they're traditional descendents, when in fact they're not. You can't even form a coherent sentence in one of the dialects, let alone in earlier Egyptian, so I don't know why you're trying to defend it. It's like these third generation Asian kids who call themselves 'Chinese', when they can't even speak a word of the language. It's very confusing...

Then where did the descendants of the ancient Egyptians go? Perhaps its due to my ignorance, but you're not making sense to me in that regard.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Then where did the descendants of the ancient Egyptians go? Perhaps its due to my ignorance, but you're not making sense to me in that regard.

... I assume they all died out, or were bred out, like literally thousands of other ethnicities world-wide. You do realise this happens, right, like with the current Aboriginal community?

That's why the Arab invasion is known as a homogenising act - not only culturally, but ethnically.