National Studies HISTORIOGRAPHY (2 Viewers)

[old.skool.kid]

Re: makin up historians??

Textbook authors are NOT historians. They are merely collaborating information into a form suitable for a syllabus. We are repeatedly told in Extension History that textbook writers don't count. In Ext exams, many people quote Peter Heath, the author of a bunch of HSC notes on JFK for the case study, and markers immediately know they don't understand the term 'historian'.

and making up historians is just stupid and shows you can't be bothered to learn it yourself.
it's more fulfilling when you do and you go into an exam with greater confidence.

So what if the person who writes the textbook has their own opinion?
eg. I wrote in my essay: R.Ringer claims in his book excel modern history, that the Weimar republics collapse was due only to the "militarily and economically powerful right".
Why is he not a historian if he has researched a topic and stated an opinion?

 

[fallenstar]

Re: makin up historians??

Also, if you mess up in the exam and have the historian saying something which the marker knows they didn't, you'll get axed. Reminds me of Gae Callender at the ancient history marking center: 'I didn't say that!'.

Hahaha, that just made me lol.

 

[fallenstar]

Re: makin up historians??

So what if the person who writes the textbook has their own opinion?
eg. I wrote in my essay: R.Ringer claims in his book excel modern history, that the Weimar republics collapse was due only to the "militarily and economically powerful right".
Why is he not a historian if he has researched a topic and stated an opinion?

Excel Modern History is notoriously unreliable as it is often subjective, as evidenced by the Ringer quote.
If you are going to use Ringer's quote then omit the textbook name at least. Textbooks are simply collations of ideas into a form suitable for a syllabus and their authors are supposed to be objective (unattainable ideal but a general textbook aim).
Ringer is not a historian because he has identified himself as a textbook writer - two different professions. However, you could quote Ringer without identifying him as a historian, simply as a contemporary historical commentator.

 

[smurfygirl]

Re: makin up historians??

Well, a marker once told me- "if you're good enough to make up a quote and make it sound sooo genuine, then you're good enough to actually remember the quote". I dnt know about you, but even after ive memorised quotes, ill end up writing the quote down for the wrong historian cos ive forgotten the historian! Or else, if your going to make up quotes, at least memorise the relevant historians for your topic. The makers can research the historian, but they cant research the quote that easily.

Markers are not stupid and do teach the options we mark, so avoid making up quotes. And, some markers will bring books with us to check facts. Don't forget that markers been teaching this for years and know the content pretty well. Also, we'd ask the people around us if we think you've made up a quote.

best to avoid.

 

[xx-lozz-xx]

Re: makin up historians??

i highly disagree.

dont ever make them up. the markers do have a good knowledge of historians and if they catch on you will loose a lot of marks as they would think you were cheating or just very stupid.

 

[Dan2008]

Re: makin up historians??

I dont think you would lose marks, but the marker would be wayy sceptical for the rest of your essay!

Anyway, why do it? the resources section has more quotes that you can pole a stick at, and you've got a year to memorise them and sound like a walking talking nerd

" ... Trotsky became a male model at the age of 15 ... " - Anatol Madeupalotsky

 

[cem]

Re: makin up historians??

I dont think you would lose marks, but the marker would be wayy sceptical for the rest of your essay!

Anyway, why do it? the resources section has more quotes that you can pole a stick at, and you've got a year to memorise them and sound like a walking talking nerd

" ... Trotsky became a male model at the age of 15 ... " - Anatol Madeupalotsky

As a marker don't waste time learning something like that - that just shows that you can memorise a quote but what is Madeupalotsky's overall view of Trotsky in different situations in his life.

We want you to be able to understand the ideas of the historians and use those ideas to support your own thesis - either knowing the ideas specifically to a few historians or just the different opinions in general. It is also a good idea to show opposing views but learning by rote quotes isn't going to impress the markers.

 

[-Cake-or-Death-]

Re: makin up historians??

A rather akward and wacky way of using historians is by visiting your nearest library. a uni library is your best bet and find a couple of books on your subject. I found it easier to remeber the names of historians that were kind of funny. aka T. Craig who wrote Weimar Germany. Create book but Craig just seemed a funny name for a historian

 

[Rhanoct]

Re: makin up historians??

you don't need to quote historians, just know what they propose. if you have an actual interest in the topics you're studying, learning what the historians argue isn't tedious. if you don't, however, you should find out which historians have written about your topic, deduce a likely stance they would take, and make up the rest. if you blank in an exam, or just really can't learn the historians, i suppose you could include shit like 'the consensus historians propose that... however lalalala'

modern is tres gay!

ps: Charles Whitethorn <--- if you wanna completely make up a historian use this name, tis awesome.

 

[Kujah]

Re: makin up historians??

^Exactly.

Know the historian's name or school of historians, know their general stance and you can then paraphrase to outline what their specific views are if you're unable to quote. You're still providing historiography either way.

 

[lionking1191]

Re: makin up historians??

^Exactly.

Know the historian's name or school of historians, know their general stance and you can then paraphrase to outline what their specific views are if you're unable to quote. You're still providing historiography either way.

historians used to backup argument = +impression points

historians chucked for its sake alone = waste of time

no historians = okay, you gotta know your stuff

historians made up on the spot = generally not very difficult to pick up, -impression points

a variation of the above would be familiarising yourself with a group of historians and relevant points and then mix and match if you really can't remember

 

[spence]

Re: makin up historians??

My teacher once told us he was marking an essay with a quote given by a certain historian. he was sitting next to this historian's wife and asked her about it, she said he definately didn't say it

 

[roar84eighty]

Re: makin up historians??

One guy in my class suggested using the person who was 1st place in the subect as a source LOL.

 

[simonloo]

Re: makin up historians??

IF in the case you are ever going to make up historians, you'd best be do it with your whole class making up a historian together. The teachers mark by schools, so if they read an unfamiliar/made up historian, it'll be less sus if they come across it in later papers they mark of your studnets as well.

 

[-may-cat-]

Re: makin up historians??

IF in the case you are ever going to make up historians, you'd best be do it with your whole class making up a historian together. The teachers mark by schools, so if they read an unfamiliar/made up historian, it'll be less sus if they come across it in later papers they mark of your studnets as well.

OR they may just think the whole class is stupid

 

[simonloo]

Re: makin up historians??

OR they may just think the whole class is stupid

OR perhaps not. We got the highest number of Band 6s than any other year for Mod Hist. And we made up historians. And this is at a selective school.

 

[georgefren]

Re: makin up historians??

Dont be retarded. Making up historians is just stupid. Think of a simple pro/con analysis : pro is you may gain a little impression if it is pulled off well. con is that the marker picks up on it (its not hard, and they'll just ask the next marker who the historian is if they dont know) and you lose a whole load of marks.

If you must make up something (i'd recommend just learning this shit, youve got ages) make up a comment from a known historian that sounds vaguely like somethign they'd say, and dont make it too controversial.

 

[-may-cat-]

Re: makin up historians??

OR perhaps not. We got the highest number of Band 6s than any other year for Mod Hist. And we made up historians. And this is at a selective school.

And does that make you and your class mates proud? If so, people like you disgust me.

 

[simonloo]

Re: makin up historians??

And does that make you and your class mates proud? If so, people like you disgust me.

And so what? It's the HSC you self righteous drecks. The OP asked if its OK with making up historians, and I'm here to say that yes, it worked for me and my class, so why shouldn't it work for him/her? Do you seriously think that the HSC markers are ruthless like your teachers make them out to be? Would you give a shit after reading about 25 papers?

And Georgefren: What I'm saying is that you won't LOSE marks for making up historians. The markers are looking to give marks. [The same as the SC remember kiddo?] And if the made up historians help with the latter, then hey, fanfuckintastic. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Idiot.

Now, Maycat, from a moral viewpoint... Sigh. Shut up.

 

[-may-cat-]

Re: makin up historians??

And so what? It's the HSC you self righteous drecks. The OP asked if its OK with making up historians, and I'm here to say that yes, it worked for me and my class, so why shouldn't it work for him/her? Do you seriously think that the HSC markers are ruthless like your teachers make them out to be? Would you give a shit after reading about 25 papers?

And Georgefren: What I'm saying is that you won't LOSE marks for making up historians. The markers are looking to give marks. [The same as the SC remember kiddo?] And if the made up historians help with the latter, then hey, fanfuckintastic. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Idiot.

Now, Maycat, from a moral viewpoint... Sigh. Shut up.

From a moral view point? moral? Your view of moral is very twisted. I don't give a shit about marks, i give a shit people who exploit history for marks. Anything for marks huh? There's more to education than being able to show someone you have reached a generic level of academic excellence, what ever happened to the personal satisfaction that comes from having true understanding? I suppose it's become obsolete for people like you.