withoutaface
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Sdent: How would you propose that an anarchist state come about, if not by democratic means?
With violence and anarchy!Sdent: How would you propose that an anarchist state come about, if not by democratic means?
Already answered that in this postwaf said:How would you propose that an anarchist state come about, if not by democratic means?
watSlidey said:Man you're a bore, Sdent. Let us know when you're done spouting anarchist talking points ey.
You speak as if choosing 10 and fighting for zero state by other means are mutually exclusive activities.1. I agree that 10 is better than 20, but the point here is that just always choosing the "lesser of the two" won't bring any kind of real change in a positive direction. All it could ever do is slow the growth of the state, and that's not a desirable position because I prefer zero state, not a state that increases in size slower than it otherwise would have.
What about groups like the LDP, who are in the main minarchist but also have a fair few ancaps among their number? I'd wager that most minarchist libertarians would have little issue with most of the methods you propose and are certainly less likely to shut you down.2. The government in its current form wouldn't want there to be a counter economy (because it can't control or steal (tax) from the people working within it), so clearly there would never be a government that 'allowed' agorism. And as for individual secession, I sincerely doubt that the current government would ever even seriously float the idea because that's the whole point of the government's monopoly control over people.
One individual running off to create a counter-market is just as unlikely to have any effect. The idea is to change people's minds one by one, be it by voting or by other means.Anyway, you missed out a few bits and pieces in your response (such as the fact that your individual vote is miniscule in the overall scheme of things so there's not a good chance of changing the outcome),
Again, not mutually exclusive, and it doesn't take much effort for each person who's convinced the state should rot to vote as such.but the overall point here is that non-democratic strategies are more likely to yield an actual change for the better, and probably for less effort too. If the strategy of talking to people to get public support isn't pursued, there is little hope for ACism.
Righto, I'll make you a deal, I'll pay for your tax from here on in and in turn you are forbidden from using state funded schools, roads, hospitals, sporting venues, anything that governments pay for. The only other condition is you have to keep a journal how it goes, it'll be worth the cost of your taxes to read about how you cope in you cope in your own brave new world.Voting and following a democratic path of changing government requires a lot of specific time and energy in political campaigning as opposed to talking about why the state is illegitimate/hindering society's progress.
To argue that ACists should "play the game" is missing the broader overall point about what democracy is. Democracy seems to me, to be a game of playing to the centre to appeal to as many people as possible, not of changing their underlying viewpoints. I prefer appealing to people asking them to reconsider the status of the state as a legitimised avenue for theft, kidnapping and killing.
The state is not just the physical buildings and the people who work for the state, it is also something that is ingrained in the way many people currently think. People think that somehow the government helps, when it actually harms them. Before the physical elements of the state could be abolished, the mentality that the state indoctrinates in people needs to go first. They need to be rid of this mentality that "OMG who would build the roads?" or "OMG what about the poor people?" (not realising that the state actually hurts poor people and is one of their greatest enemies).
That's a pretty piss poor attack on AC ideology. If there exists government roads for everyone but him, there's not going to be the market for a private contractor to build more as he claims would be the case if the government didn't exist at all.Righto, I'll make you a deal, I'll pay for your tax from here on in and in turn you are forbidden from using state funded schools, roads, hospitals, sporting venues, anything that governments pay for. The only other condition is you have to keep a journal how it goes, it'll be worth the cost of your taxes to read about how you cope in you cope in your own brave new world.
Well to really get anywhere within democracy you often have to make compromises and you can't really stick to your principles because the game is played in such a way that you can't stick to those principles. Look at the libertarian party in the US, Murray Rothbard and stuff were originally active in that, and look where it is now. It gets like 3% of the vote and right now its probably closer to being a conservative party rather than a libertarian party. They've had to make sooo many compromises and they're still not even close to having any real effect on the growth of the govt. If the goal was minarchism, then certainly I'd agree with you, but the end goal here is ACism, so the best way to go about achieving that is outside the current system of democracy. By functioning as a part of the state, it's almost like you're endorsing the state in an implicit way.Sdent: Voting requires five minutes of your time. Establishing an AC party might take a week, but you needn't dedicate time to 'parliamentary campaigning' as you're already spreading your ideology by word of mouth anyway, assuming that once someone was convinced of AC ideology they'd be prepared to vote for an AC political party.
"The workers" fucking ruined our state's economy and infastructure. Fuck the workers.(How dare you chiky pie = Liberal Party SHAME ON YOU, YA UNION BASHER.)
Comrades Comrades NSW STATE ELECTION VOTE 1 LABOR PARTY. Barry the Ferral skunk can get F#c#ed. hahahaha muhahahahaha. The Labor party for the workers you know Labor for the workers yeahh, Unions United.