Official Apology Thread (2 Viewers)

[wuddie]

Re: They're after our $$$ already!

I'm not the biggest expert in aboriginal affairs, but I can't see how the aboriginal community will become an equal part of australian society when they are constantly given special treatment, further financial aid and compensation, etc.

I realise it's much more complicated than that, but I just don't see how further financial aid will (to quote) "close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity".

i am not for this compensation motion at all, in fact, i'd join the jihad against it if i have to. but in their defence, if their living standards are as bas they are made out to be, then they might need a bit more money (i don't know, say 10% more than the average person) to 'catch up'.

anyway, no to compensation. i think rudd is pretty confirm on this, so not much to worry about.

 

[wuddie]

Re: Did you support Rudd's apology?

the apology was said so the abo's (excuse my irish) can put a sock in it.

 

[Evilo]

Re: They're after our $$$ already!

I'm not the biggest expert in aboriginal affairs, but I can't see how the aboriginal community will become an equal part of australian society when they are constantly given special treatment, further financial aid and compensation, etc.

I realise it's much more complicated than that, but I just don't see how further financial aid will (to quote) "close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity".

+1

 

[Slidey]

Re: They're after our $$$ already!

i am not for this compensation motion at all, in fact, i'd join the jihad against it if i have to. but in their defence, if their living standards are as bas they are made out to be, then they might need a bit more money (i don't know, say 10% more than the average person) to 'catch up'.

anyway, no to compensation. i think rudd is pretty confirm on this, so not much to worry about.

They're already given more money than the average person. What makes you think that more will help?

You can't throw money at a problem and expect it to go away.

 

[chicky_pie]

Re: Did you support Rudd's apology?

the apology was said so the abo's (excuse my irish) can put a sock in it.

You can't shut them up, unless there's a cheque with their name on it.

$orry $orry $orry $orry $orry

 

[bassistx]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Are you fucking kidding me.

Medical facilities. Better? I'm pretty sure they're the only race in Australia to get their own medical facilities.

Then why are they in such poor health? Maybe they need better doctors? God, I don't know. I'm not an Aboriginal Case Worker ffs.

And anyway, I find it frustrating and annoying and whateverelse that they can't just live like everybody else, in the cities, not in the middle of no-where. If they want to wander off etc, why can't they take care of themselves? But seeing as they want it that way and it's their culture, tradition, etc. I respect that. But it's still annoying to see taxpayer's money go into making medical centres and hospitals in the middle of no-where. Those people won't even be there the next day, they'll just set off again on foot or horse or whatever it is that they ride.

We gave you a formal apology, we flew you over the the country's capital for free, gave you accommodation, have heaps of cops over there in NT, got you social and case workers, what the hell more do you want? Is that not costing money? You blew your compensation, if there was any to begin with. The idea of compensation shows that they haven't and will never (I hope I am wrong) accept just an apology. So it's not our fault anymore (or the first settlers etc whatever). Those people are dead, go dig them up from their graves and ask for an apology and compensation. All we bloody did was try to be "friends" and they turned their backs like it meant nothing. Ffs, isn't that part of their culture? Stick together, family, all that crap?

They're not trying to be part of society and show their worth. Most of them aren't anyway. Those who have, I have great respect for.

Anyway. Wherever they want to live, we still have to pay for their medical crap. If not through tax, then out of pity/sympathy.

Did everyone just seem to miss bubbly's post?
Rudd himself said that it was to restore respect. That is all. And it's only symbolic. Even though you don't accept it etc. you've still taken the time to talk about it and you prob. read it or listened to/watched it.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Did you support Rudd's apology?

You can't shut them up, unless there's a cheque with their name on it.

$orry $orry $orry $orry $orry

Whoa-ha-hwoa ca-ching!

EDIT: Doesn't anybody realise that if they do get compo, we'll suddenly ALL be Aboriginal? lol.

 

[chicky_pie]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Howard best PM for Aborigines

John Howard did more for indigenous people than any other prime minister, opposition frontbencher Tony Abbott says.

Mr Howard was the only living former prime minister absent from yesterday's parliamentary apology to Australia's indigenous peoples.

He refused to say sorry to the stolen generations while in office between 1996 and 2007.

Mr Rudd described all his predecessors, except Mr Howard, as great friends of the Aboriginal people.

Mr Abbott, the opposition's indigenous affairs spokesman, said it was appropriate for Mr Howard to be taking some time off rather than witness the apology.

"He was a great prime minister, a great leader and he changed Australia dramatically for the better," Mr Abbott told reporters in Canberra.

"I believe no Australian prime minister has done more for Aboriginal people, in practical terms, than John Howard.

"After 11-and-a-half very difficult years as prime minister, I think the guy's entitled to a bit of time out."


http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...origines-abbott/2008/02/14/1202760448673.html

 

[ConjOB]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Apart from being a master manipulator and twister of words, Howard did nothing for aboriginals.

His is one of those old fucks who just dont get it, never will. A fuckwit of the highest order and got whats coming to him, only the 2nd prime minister to be voted out of his seat ... Then Costello spat in his face afterwards Latest election reminded me of a good ol' WWF storyline where the good guy eventually wins.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

Agreed with all of the above.

I have very little sympathy for those who want compensation. They already get more from the government than the average person just for being of a particular race.

exactly.

i think all the other benefits they get from the government lead them into a false sense of entitlement. "i'm aboriginal therefore i deserve [insert special treatment]". it doesn't work like that.

i think the point about the supposed importance of their culture is a good one. not to say that their traditional culture isn't important, but you get to a point where you have to choose. you can't have both. either put on your loincloth, pick up your spear and hightail it into the outback to be free, or pack up and move to civilisation and enjoy the benefits that come with that, at the expense of some of your traditional ideals. but you cannot have both. deal with it.

 

[Dumsum]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

Reverse racism is fun, guys.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

I'd have to go against the general trend here and support the notion of compensation for stolen generation victims.

There's no need to muddle the issue of welfare handouts with compensation. If the individuals of the stolen generation have suffered, if they have been wronged then they deserve to be compensated for the suffering.

The fact that taxpayers aren't individually responsible for past government policies seems irrelevant. For example, when someone suffers injury in a car accident for which another is at fault, they receive compensation from the insurance company. Of course, this is paid for by insurance fees incurred onto the rest of society. The individuals who pay insurance fees (pretty much everyone) are also not at fault.

I'm not aware of the actual figures required to recompense direct victims but I doubt they're backbreaking for taxpayers. I can't help but suspect that the whole uncomfortable air surrounding the notion of compensating the stolen generation reeks of racism. If it were white children that were taken away we wouldn't have having this debate. In that sense the nation may not have been ready for the apology.

 

[Gay Captain]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

If someone proves they were taken from their parents do they automatically get compensation?

Or do they have to prove it was for racist reasons?

And what if they're not Indigenous but prove they were taken unfairly from their parents (it's happened) and mistreated thereafter?

 

[Gay Captain]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Apart from being a master manipulator and twister of words, Howard did nothing for aboriginals.

Hey that's exactly what Kevin Rudd's done so far

 

[mjarb]

Re: Did you support Rudd's apology?

Let the Prime Minister apologise for the Parliment if he wants but dont include the majority of the non-indigenous populous as supporting his apology. The stolen generation is over-rated. There was no racial intent when children were removed from families. The only reason, the same as is still in place today with DOCS is that a child is removed from its parents if it is in danger or no being cared for correctly.
DOCS still have that charge today, do we see apologies being made to white (non-indigenous) children who have been removed from familes and fostered out? not likely.
Isn't the Government currently looking at the Northern Territory for acts of abuse to children, what do you think will happen if they find children in those situations - leave them in that situation??? Unlikely.
Lets get on with life. If an apology is to be made dont just make it to a racial minority?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

i'm trying not to generalise to myself, but it bugs me to think about how some indigenous people might spend any compensation money they recieve. if i knew they'd use it for things like their children's education, healthcare, or just generally creating a better quality of life for themselves so they wouldn't have to constantly be on welfare, then that's ok by me. but i worry that a significant number might just cash the cheque and blow the money on grog or something. i know not everyone would do that. but the evidence is there to suggest that some people would and i'm not prepared to support compensation because of that.

 

[wuddie]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

There's no need to muddle the issue of welfare handouts with compensation. If the individuals of the stolen generation have suffered, if they have been wronged then they deserve to be compensated for the suffering.

The fact that taxpayers aren't individually responsible for past government policies seems irrelevant. For example, when someone suffers injury in a car accident for which another is at fault, they receive compensation from the insurance company. Of course, this is paid for by insurance fees incurred onto the rest of society. The individuals who pay insurance fees (pretty much everyone) are also not at fault.

i don't know how you came to the comparison with the insurance company, but did you know that to be insured, you have to pay premium? surprise! and the risk of claiming the insurance is already factored into the premium, of which the insurance company has agreed to honour. now, tell me, where does our taxation system include this risk of compensating the mistake of the past government? we can acknowledge the mistake, yes, and we have already done so. how does compensation cut into this apology?

if this compensation is enough to make the stolen generation victims content, then we might as well throw all our morals into the one basket called 'money talks' and forget all the virtues we were lead to believe still exist.

 

[wuddie]

Re: Did you support Rudd's apology?

^ you errr, lived in that era and witnessed the events unfolded, did you? because that's a whole heap of extremist view there and it sounds like what the government/s responsible for this would say if the notion of racism was raise.

or did you just assumed it was like the docs.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

i'm trying not to generalise to myself, but it bugs me to think about how some indigenous people might spend any compensation money they recieve. if i knew they'd use it for things like their children's education, healthcare, or just generally creating a better quality of life for themselves so they wouldn't have to constantly be on welfare, then that's ok by me. but i worry that a significant number might just cash the cheque and blow the money on grog or something. i know not everyone would do that. but the evidence is there to suggest that some people would and i'm not prepared to support compensation because of that.

How they will spend the money does not matter. Anyone who receives monetary compensation should be able to spend that however they want to. I won't use the language of "rights" and "freedom" but that's just how society works. The same principle governs any wages Aboriginal people receive. If they deserve the money in principle they are free to choose how they spend it (of course within the realms of legality). Separate government policy is needed to encourage or discourage individuals to spend their money on certain things.

 

[Optoshit]

Re: Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

If someone proves they were taken from their parents do they automatically get compensation?

Or do they have to prove it was for racist reasons?

And what if they're not Indigenous but prove they were taken unfairly from their parents (it's happened) and mistreated thereafter?

you hate aboriginals