Shooting Brazillian man was a "mistake" (5 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

But don't you think it makes sense that if he believed he was chasing after a suicide bomber that the only option available to him (after hopefully an extensive attempt at a bit of negotiation) is to shoot him in the head?

8 times (if it was one officer) is a little bit of a worry.

 

[tempco]

But don't you think it makes sense that if he believed he was chasing after a suicide bomber that the only option available to him (after hopefully an extensive attempt at a bit of negotiation) is to shoot him in the head?

8 times (if it was one officer) is a little bit of a worry.

it was one officer.

yes, it makes sense shooting an alleged suicide bomber in the head, but so many other things that the police had done did not make sense. would you pin a suicide bomber down? would you allow a suicide bomber to enter a train station at all?

hopefully, the investigation will take into account whether the police officers had handled themselves according to protocol or not.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

no, imo they should have immobilised him before they ran over.
I'm not really taking sides in this case, I'm more just supporting the idea that if you have someone you believe is a suicide bomber, there does come a time when you have to make the decision to shoot them.

 

[Calculon]

On a bit of a tangent, but still related and I didn't feel like starting a new thread, what does everyone else think of the new policies they've introduced for the subway in New York?

Basically what they're doing is random bag searches on the way into the stations, and if a person declines to be searched they can't catch the train, but they can walk away without anything happening to them.


My belief is that these measures are going to do nothing, consider the following situation:
A suicide bomber walks into the station, and is pulled aside by the police for a bag search, he declines and walks away. If he is on his own, he'll just come back and bomb the subway the next day. If he is part of an organised group, it's really no great loss if only 3 or 4 of the 5 suicide bombers get through, they're still going to create chaos.

Thoughts?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

On a bit of a tangent, but still related and I didn't feel like starting a new thread, what does everyone else think of the new policies they've introduced for the subway in New York?

Basically what they're doing is random bag searches on the way into the stations, and if a person declines to be searched they can't catch the train, but they can walk away without anything happening to them.


My belief is that these measures are going to do nothing, consider the following situation:
A suicide bomber walks into the station, and is pulled aside by the police for a bag search, he declines and walks away. If he is on his own, he'll just come back and bomb the subway the next day. If he is part of an organised group, it's really no great loss if only 3 or 4 of the 5 suicide bombers get through, they're still going to create chaos.

Thoughts?

It's entirely stupid, if you're a suicide bomber I don't think the prospect of someone maybe attempting to search your bag is going to scare you off.

 

[supercharged]

The London police are terrorists themselves if they can go around the place executing innocent people by "mistake". How many more "mistakes" will be made in the years to come?

Anyway,

Justice for the slaying of Jean Charles de Menezes!

 

[Cyan_phoeniX]

The London police are terrorists themselves if they can go around the place executing innocent people by "mistake". How many more "mistakes" will be made in the years to come?

Anyway,

Justice for the slaying of Jean Charles de Menezes!

By the highlighting of 'mistake' do you mean to say it was no mistake? That they knew he was innocent but shot him for shits and giggles?

 

[tempco]

By the highlighting of 'mistake' do you mean to say it was no mistake? That they knew he was innocent but shot him for shits and giggles?

well, if someone shot your son, or brother, you wouldn't just call it a "mistake" would you?

 

[Cyan_phoeniX]

well, if someone shot your son, or brother, you wouldn't just call it a "mistake" would you?

doesn't answer my initial question. What other words are they going to use? They called it regretable and tragic etc. I just dont' get the emphasise of 'mistake', as if to imply it wasn't. Thats why i am asking for it to be clarified.

 

[tempco]

i'll let supercharged answer that for himself.

and as for the new laws in new york, it's a waste of resources.

 

[samuelblayden]

the poms suck they should not have done that

 

[supercharged]

doesn't answer my initial question. What other words are they going to use? They called it regretable and tragic etc. I just dont' get the emphasise of 'mistake', as if to imply it wasn't. Thats why i am asking for it to be clarified.

By calling it a "mistake," is to exonerate the officer who blew that guys brains into the pavement. He ran away because he probably thought he was about to get held up by a gunman (the officer was in plainclothes after all). careless manslaughter would be a more appropriate term...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

By calling it a "mistake," is to exonerate the officer who blew that guys brains into the pavement. He ran away because he probably thought he was about to get held up by a gunman (the officer was in plainclothes after all). careless manslaughter would be a more appropriate term...

You're all speculating that the cop didn't make it known that he was a cop.

 

[tempco]

You're all speculating that the cop didn't make it known that he was a cop.

according to eye witnesses, they didn't.

the official statements from the police, however, stated that they did.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Hmm well then, I'd tend to side with the eye witnesses, but I'd have to see exactly what they said happened in fairly good detail.

 

[tempco]

Police:

As the three plain-clothes officers closed in on Mr Menezes, they say that they screamed their first warning that they were armed police. Their version is that he turned, ran into the station concourse, vaulted the ticket barriers and reached a waiting train before they could catch him. They shot him five times in the head when they believed that he was trying to trigger a bomb.

Eyewitness:

By far the most controversial claim comes from a number of witnesses who have cast doubt on police statements that they shouted a warning or identified themselves to the suspect before opening fire.

Lee Ruston, 32, who was on the platform, said that he did not hear any of the three shout “police” or anything like it. Mr Ruston, a construction company director, said that he saw two of the officers put on their blue baseball caps marked “police” but that the frightened electrician could not have seen that happen because he had his back to the officers and was running with his head down.

Mr Ruston remembers one of the Scotland Yard team screaming into a radio as they were running. Mr Ruston thought the man that they were chasing “looked Asian” as he tumbled on to a waiting Northern Line train.

Less than a minute later Mr Menezes was pinned to the floor of the carriage by two men while a third officer fired five shots into the base of his skull.

Again, Mr Ruston says that no verbal warning was given.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1707480,00.html

 

[supercharged]

You're all speculating that the cop didn't make it known that he was a cop.

If he knew that it was a cop, there would be no reason to run away. He wasn't doing anything illegal.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

It is all blurry as these situations often are, but it seems they could have identified themselves a bit better at least.

 

[tempco]

If he knew that it was a cop, there would be no reason to run away. He wasn't doing anything illegal.

he alledgedly had an expired visa.

it was also claimed (by his family) that he had been attacked by a gang a few days ago.

 

[tempco]

Brazilian's family claim police altered their story

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1711303,00.html

Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said police told her that he was wearing a lightweight denim jacket and not some bulky coat that could have hidden an explosive belt underneath. Detectives also claimed immediately after the shooting that Mr Menezes had refused to heed shouted warnings by armed police and vaulted the ticket barriers at Stockwell Tube station.

Now police say that he used his travelcard to gain access to the station. Ms Figueiredo said: “They are saying he did absolutely nothing wrong when he was killed, so why don’t they say all this publicly.”

Police shot the electrician seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at point-blank range.