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Shootings and Explosions in Paris (4 Viewers)

FlyingKanga

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To answer your question, you have a nation state which now exists which is more totalitarian and brutal than quite possibly anything we have seen on the face of this earth... It relies on a strict interpretation (I might say strict, but it is an interpretation) of the Quran to justify the oppression of women, rape, the killing of so called "non believers," the killing of those who convert from the religion and the oppression of any other but their own... You have thugs who follow these preaching who are trying to bring Damascus to France...

It's easy to say these people are not "real" Muslim, however, they can probably recite the Quran word for word, they pray like a Muslim, eat like them, etc... The fact is also, that it is a text that is being interpreted in this backward manner...

You haven't answered the question at all. I'm asking where is the bombing of innocent civillians justified within the Qur'an? Gimme evidence if the problem is Islam.
 

durrrrr

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That's my point, just cause one Muslim country prosecutes religious minorities like Christians doesn't mean another does.
1. One country? Try dozens.

2. You do realize that in Iran you can be imprisoned or executed for converting to Christianity, right?



Iran had the first ever kind of charter universal human rights under Persian king Cyrus the Great, where he notable freed the Jews from Babylonian slavery and allowed them our of exile to return to their homeland this is even said in the Bible, where Persia is heavily praised. Cyrus allowed all religious groups to practice whatever they wanted and all in all was the first leader to outlaw all kinds of slavery in his time.
Ah yes, compassionate persia that was violently imperislistic


In Australia where ever there is a Jewish Synagogue there is a lot of security and is at most fully fenced with security cameras. I went into a Synagogue in the Tehran which is the capital city there was not in the sense any sort of Security, unlike in the West and the rest of the region Jews in Iran, don't face any sort of Anti-Semitism
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/08/iran-israel-obama-kerry-jews/400895/


Even from the experiences of the tourists and people like me, you actually feel safer on the streets in Iran than elsewhere in the world like Australia
yeah, maybe if you arent a homosexual or a scantily clad woman
 

classicjimbo

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That's my point, just cause one Muslim country prosecutes religious minorities like Christians doesn't mean another does.

Iran had the first ever kind of charter universal human rights under Persian king Cyrus the Great, where he notable freed the Jews from Babylonian slavery and allowed them our of exile to return to their homeland this is even said in the Bible, where Persia is heavily praised. Cyrus allowed all religious groups to practice whatever they wanted and all in all was the first leader to outlaw all kinds of slavery in his time.

Iran has been a culturally and historically rich country for the last 2500 years. Its not Iran, the media tells you about. Iranians are well educated and hospitable people, they are not out there to kill you westerners. Unlike other countries in the region and abroad unlike Iran, minorities like Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians are treated quite well.

In Australia where ever there is a Jewish Synagogue there is a lot of security and is at most fully fenced with security cameras. I went into a Synagogue in the Tehran which is the capital city there was not in the sense any sort of Security, unlike in the West and the rest of the region Jews in Iran, don't face any sort of Anti-Semitism, extremism or violence. You would obviously assume by the media Iran brutally prosecutes and harasses it Jews due to the Anti-Israel rhetoric, but its nowhere like that as there is a well known split between Judaism and Zionism. Most Iranians just mind their own business and have no interest in interfering in the lives of others.

Even from the experiences of the tourists and people like me, you actually feel safer on the streets in Iran than elsewhere in the world like Australia, there are hardly any sort of street crimes. From the natural landscapes to the architecture to the people to the Mosques everything in Iran is nice and beautiful. Hope you visit it one day.
It is true that iran sheltered armenians during their genocides but considering armenians were iranians only a century before, and that there has always been a massive community established in iran for more than 1000 years - I wouldn't really attribute the act to kindness as much as letting their own back in after they were taken by ruskies. They may have had a different religion but they were essentially the same culture and probably intermixed enough to be close to the same race. Yes it was 'nice' of them but it was also very easy, it's not a strong example.

I'm not sure but are you trying to conflate the actions of a pre-islamic/arab invasion iran and non-islamic (likely zoroastrian) persian ruler with modern day or even post-600's iran? Very weak example and not at all comparable or relevant to today.

After the 1979 revolution muslim authorities confiscated the wealth and property of jews and zoroastrians - that is real institutional oppression, that is nazi tier tactics. They brought down family dynasties and gutted generations of hard workers purely BECAUSE they were minorities. They brought down middle and upper-middle class jews and zoroastrians and reduced them to harmless, powerless husks apart from their token parliamentary presence (4.8% of iranian parliament were the designated minorities, how significant!).
Everyone who could fled the country. 89% of all iranian-jews have fled the country.
The ones that are left in iran are there because they: were too poor to flee during the revolution, too poor to flee now because their wealth is gone, religiously conservative, afraid to let go of their roots or god bless them stayed to fight back.

"That's my point, just cause one Muslim country prosecutes religious minorities like Christians doesn't mean another does."
Every religious minority outside of jews, christians and zoroastrianism have been essentially criminalised. Bahá’ís are not allowed, even in theory, to exercise freely their religion and to exist and function as an organized religious community.

Have a look through here and look at how institutionally oppressive your country has become. https://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir0108a.pdf

Any tolerant deeds that iran has done in the past were vastly undone by that revolution and the wave after wave of minority focused violence and institutional oppression that occurred after. The tolerant Iran is gone. Undone by theocratic islam. Now it is close to being in league with all the rest.

So no no no little one, these minorities were not 'treated well', some were merely tolerated and others have not even be acknowledged as deserving of legal protection.

You feel safer in Iran because you're iranian and not a visible minority - like begets like. i know people that have visited as tourists and they have not at all felt safe - largely females funny enough :^)

What I really don't understand is if you're living in Australia now surely your family must've acknowledged the 1979 madness and left because of it. How can you be so defensive of the country?
 
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classicjimbo

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My favourite part about this thread was how everyone having a whinge about minimal coverage of the beirut bombings etc. didn't even make a thread in NCAP in order to discuss it and bring attention to the tragedy. Le propre de l'hypocrisie.
 

wannaspoon

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^ There is no coverage of anything if there is no political agenda... Watch us piss away any freedoms we have left for the sake of preserving a backward religious that shouldn't be in existence in a free and progressive society...

You haven't answered the question at all. I'm asking where is the bombing of innocent civillians justified within the Qur'an? Gimme evidence if the problem is Islam.
Quran (2:191-193) "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun"

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

I can continue... Face it, it's a backward religion...
 

FlyingKanga

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Quran (2:191-193) "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun"

I can continue... Face it, it's a backward religion...
When you are reading the chapter of a history textbook for information, do you stop at specific lines and chuck them into your homework or essay or do you read the whole chapter? Surprisingly, the same thing applies to the Qur'an! Go read the context of all these verses and come back with a narrowed down list. I've done one for you. :) Or you could, you know... Continue being ignorant like the rest and keep copy pasting verses out of context, that works too I guess.

What does it say before 2:191?
"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors." [2:190]
As you can see, it is a self defence verse!
 

wannaspoon

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His view is a bit more moderate than mine though...
 
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dan964

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You said close the borders:
Mate I could not care less about the moral superiority of Christianity. Both religions preach peace and love, and both religions preach bigotry (sexism, homophobia, racism, you name it). It was illegal to be gay in western countries not 40 years ago which isn't a very long time IMO, and the fact that we still don't have marriage "equality" in Australia proves to me that all countries are capable of bigot government policies supported by, what, 42%? That's not far off from 51% unfortunately.
Calm your farm - you think being a bigot is any better than being a racist?
1. Calm your farm as well, durrrr is hardly here to to mainly assert that Religion A > Religion B (if he is Sylvia.B 2.0 whom is non-religious). He is only here to assert that Islam is false/violent etc. etc. etc. Neither am I.
Most Christians, like myself, think it is silly to assert the moral superiority of the Christian religion; but rather point to Christ - to examine his life, his miracles, teachings etc. (Same goes for most religions in a different way; for instance at Islam, you look at the teachings of the Quran, its miracles; Mohammed its [Islam's] prophet)

2. Just because there isn't same sex marriage or because one disagrees with your [possibly liberal,left-wing that is] opinion; is labelled bigot/narrow-minded?!? [A study was done into this finding that it would be an erosion of the rights of freedom, and the rights of the child, if the definition of marriage was loosened in any way].
" It was illegal to be gay in western countries not 40 years ago" - bigotry possibly.
"don't have marriage equality " - definitely not
 
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FlyingKanga

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He is only here to assert that Islam is false/violent etc. etc. etc.
Not really, he's here to get violent reactions from muslims. He said it himself in the other thread.
 

wannaspoon

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cliffnotes:

Video was done in 2008, threat to the Bataclan theatre, talks about how the Bataclan theatre does gala dinners for the Magav (Isreali Border Police), tells them to stop supporting Jewish organisations designed to oppress Muslims, etc...

"If the Bataclan and the Migdal organise like the previous years have a gala for the Magav aka " The Israel Border Police " , the people will no longer support and you will pay the consequences of your actions. the next time we will not come to talk"
Not condoning what they are saying, I'm just saying that the motivations for the attack might have been very, very different than what is being proclaimed in the media... Instead, the event is being used as a political pawn on the broader political chess board... Not only this, they were specifically warned and did not act upon it... The French government is run by a bunch of plebs...
 

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