SMH Article on Paper 2 (3 Viewers)

[RyddeckerSMP]

Are you saying that your 'the mother who has worked all day, and is trying to cook dinner while looking after the kids is not going to want to think about serious issues' idea is good? Really?

 

[Ultraviolent]

Are you saying that your 'the mother who has worked all day, and is trying to cook dinner while looking after the kids is not going to want to think about serious issues' idea is good? Really?

It's what happens. It is only a small minority of people that wants heavy news.

I know you havn't done the course, but one of the main principals is that the media is bad because they run sensationional stories in order to secure ratings. Now, why do sensational stories gain ratings? Why aren't people interested in real news content? The media simply plays to its audiences' wants, but this is not considered in the course.

To argue that the media is guiltless because it pertains to people's demands would get one hammered. While I don't necessarily agree that the media is innocent, why can't a student be encouraged to take this stance? Shouldn't critical thought be encouraged so that students can form their own opinions?

 

[_dhj_]

I know you havn't done the course, but one of the main principals is that the media is bad because they run sensationional stories in order to secure ratings. Now, why do sensational stories gain ratings? Why aren't people interested in real news content? The media simply plays to its audiences' wants, but this is not considered in the course.

This was part of my conclusion in the HSC (well something to that effect i cant' remember the exact words):

"... the media is directly influenced by the prejudices and assumptions of the audience. As such, we as the respondents in the transaction of discourse must also share responsibility for its representations of reality, by actively questioning the motives and methods behinds its representations."

I can also assure you that a candidate who examined why there is "selectivity and emphasis"(this year's hsc) will generally perform better than a candidate who did not.

 

[AlabasterMan]

That argument seems to still point the finger at the media, but I concede that it can be done to an extent by the intelligent.

However, this still falls under what Not-That-Bright said: "if a student did manage to come up with something out of the ordinary, they probably would have come up with this out of the ordinary idea from outside of the syllabus". The Telling The Truth module does not actually promote one to think. Instead, it merely gets students to attack. What I think would be of more use is a "Well, does this actually matter?" type focus. That way, students would at least be able to look at different viewpoints, rather than blindly charging into battle.



Who says? The media gives people what they want. It is a small minority of people that actually cares about major issues. Why can't students debate this and come to their own conclusions?

I have one massive problem with your argument.
NOWHERE in the course rubric does it specify a,b,c or d. ie you state that to come up with their own thoughts, students have to go outside the syllabus. I return that by definition, NOTHING relevant in an essay on telling the truth, original of not, is outside the syllabus!

 

[RyddeckerSMP]

It's what happens. It is only a small minority of people that wants heavy news.

I know you havn't done the course, but one of the main principals is that the media is bad because they run sensationional stories in order to secure ratings. Now, why do sensational stories gain ratings? Why aren't people interested in real news content? The media simply plays to its audiences' wants, but this is not considered in the course.

To argue that the media is guiltless because it pertains to people's demands would get one hammered. While I don't necessarily agree that the media is innocent, why can't a student be encouraged to take this stance? Shouldn't critical thought be encouraged so that students can form their own opinions?

The idea behind it was bad, but as you made it more complex and coherent like above, i would definately say that is a valid viewpoint. I definately agree with you know about the limits that this elective provides, especially in powerplay where it is so diverse to what you can actually say. Work needs to be done on this elective definately.

 

[Ultraviolent]

This was part of my conclusion in the HSC (well something to that effect i cant' remember the exact words):

"... the media is directly influenced by the prejudices and assumptions of the audience. As such, we as the respondents in the transaction of discourse must also share responsibility for its representations of reality, by actively questioning the motives and methods behinds its representations."

But how did you formulate this view? Did the course encourage you to examine the responsibility of the audience, or did you go there via your accord?

Some people alreadly have the ability to critically think. As such, they will examine issues such as this one. I have issue with the fact that the course is supposedly "teaching" people to think critically, when it is instead giving students the view that they should take. Of course, there are those that who will formulate their own opinions regardless (to the limited extent that they are allowed to), but this is not really "teaching".

A better course would ask whether it matters if the media plays to the wants of it's audience, and how it is able to do this. That way, students would be encouraged to choose their own view.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

NOWHERE in the course rubric does it specify a,b,c or d. ie you state that to come up with their own thoughts, students have to go outside the syllabus. I return that by definition, NOTHING relevant in an essay on telling the truth, original of not, is outside the syllabus!

What is taught in the syllabus is all that is examined. If a marker can come on and explain differently feel free to, but this is how i was explained the marking process worked.

Markers generally look for specific words / ideas in the essays and give marks accordingly. Also, markers are shown examples of what a band 4 - 5 - 6 answer looks like, so that they can get a rough idea of how such an answer should go.

 

[Ultraviolent]

The idea behind it was bad, but as you made it more complex and coherent like above, i would definately say that is a valid viewpoint. I definately agree with you know about the limits that this elective provides, especially in powerplay where it is so diverse to what you can actually say. Work needs to be done on this elective definately.

Cool

adding more characters...

 

[haack_m]

But I am top shit, my mother always informed me of that.

FURTHERMORE, this is an IMPORTANT issue. We're discussing the merits of this particular facet of the English syllabus. the fact that you cannot construe this simple bit of information from the above discussion shows how you you have been failed.

Die drinking bleach, cockfag.

what ever

but seriously, who really cares about the HSC english syllabus, we have finished it, no more english

or are you one of those people who have completely stuffed their english response, so your gonna sit here and say, ohh its fucked, they didnt teach us the right stuff, it should be re-written,

just come to terms with the fact that you fuckd up, some people will have to face this

SO GROW UP ABOUT IT ALREADY

SHOW SOME MATURATY

 

[_dhj_]

A better course would ask whether it matters if the media plays to the wants of it's audience, and how it is able to do this. That way, students would be encouraged to choose their own view.

I'm not saying the course is perfect, but I don't believe it explicitly states that the media is bad.

Also, I think to get the top bands, you do have to be a pretty top writer or show a bit of conceptual creativity (preferably both ). Accepting the syllabus definitions will get you so far, responses at the top are differentiated not by their regurgitation of the syllabus, but by their show of originality - "flair and insight", which doesn't just mean sophisticated writing style, but also having evidence of originality and creativity in reaching the thesis.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

"I'm not saying the course is perfect, but I don't believe it explicitly states that the media is bad. "

What? They must have changed it for you 05'rs...

Accepting the syllabus definitions will get you so far, responses at the top are differentiated not by their regurgitation of the syllabus, but by their show of originality - "flair and insight", which doesn't just mean sophisticated writing style, but also having evidence of originality and creativity in reaching the thesis.

Oh I agree that top answers are probably sometimes original etc but it's just an original way of articulating the same point that everyone else in the entire course made.

 

[_dhj_]

Oh I agree that top answers are probably sometimes original etc but it's just an original way of articulating the same point that everyone else in the entire course made.

Maybe that's because part of English is about articulation of ideas. By the same token, if there was a "truly original" idea articulated by a particular candidate, backed by evidence and sophistication, he/she would get the top marks.

Besides.. how many "new ideas" can you come up with? I think the reality simply proves the postmodernist view

 

[Ultraviolent]

Oh I agree that top answers are probably sometimes original etc but it's just an original way of articulating the same point that everyone else in the entire course made.

QFMFT

 

[_dhj_]

False False False False False False False False False False False False.

You have to rabbit what they want you to say. To be fair, that's what I've been taught my entire year 12 career in English; that they don't take too kindly to "subversive thought"

I'm sorry to hear that you attended such a conservative educational institution

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Besides.. how many "new ideas" can you come up with? I think the reality simply proves the postmodernist view

I know that postmodernists say that every new idea is really just a re-articulation of a bunch of other idea's, and I do agree.. But my point was that all of their ideas stem from the exact same basic ideas and this is institutionalised by the way the course is run and marked.

All exams are about 'playing a game', everyone who is successful in exams (i think) knows this. The best way to assess someone's knowledge of a particular subject is probably with a viva voce, but that is kinda impossible to run for everyone in the state.

I am not saying that 'playing the game' is bad, just that the course is an absolute facade because of this.

 

[Ultraviolent]

I think this argument is done for the moment. GG guys

 

[fleepbasding]

False False False False False False False False False False False False.

You have to rabbit what they want you to say. To be fair, that's what I've been taught my entire year 12 career in English; that they don't take too kindly to "subversive thought"

Agreed. the tunnel vision that the syllabus enforces on students studying texts definitely prevents orginal and personal responses to the texts. In classes whenever I express something outside or against the focus of the module the teacher is in some senses pleased but never-the-less advises to leave it out of the exam essay.

I didn't study 'frontline' in TTT (I did Birthday letters) but my brother did 'frontline' and from his anecdotes, it was an enlightening experience for some of them. The truth is that lots of people DO watch programs like ACA and believe everything ray martin and co. say. Of course the 'responsibility' doesn't lie entirely with ACA and the 'media' and can be attributed largely to the supply-and-demand/economic forces. All the same, we shouldn't be quite so fatalistic about it. Just because sensationalism in the media can be explained by economic factors doesn't mean that people shouldn't criticize it or draw attention to inaccurate represention. While most of us are very critical/cynical not everyone is, many lack this quality. In this way I genuinely think the TTT is useful for some students... if I be honest with myself though, the students who do watch ACA probably aren't going to engage with the course and it's ideas anyway.

goodluck with the maths exam tommorow.

 

[Theodopolis]

I think it would be much better to give people basic skills of research / writing / arithmatic - THEN allow them to use their skills to explore their world and develop critical thinking abilities and strong opinions.

Anyone else up for learning Arithmetic as part of the English syllabus?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Anyone else up for learning Arithmetic as part of the English syllabus?

I was quite obviously not just talking about english.

 

[RyddeckerSMP]

School Certificate.