Standardised National Test For Yr 12 Students. (1 Viewer)

[go_elizabeth]

standard or advanced english ahaha?!

 

[boasboy]

asif the hsc is easy >:

well it is ALOT easier than in other countries.. but still .. BOO.. ( as u can see ididn't read the newspaper or watch the news xD ) =P

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

asif the hsc is easy >:

well it is ALOT easier than in other countries.. but still .. BOO.. ( as u can see ididn't read the newspaper or watch the news xD ) =P

NSW's 4U maths course fairs well with the rest of the world...not sure about other subjects though.

 

[Trev]

would u get to choose subjects with this national test? or would it be like school certificate ie. math/english/science exams (im not comparing the level of difficulty when referring to SC, but having subjects compulsory...) if u understand my rambling, reply

 

[Slidey]

You'd get to choose subjects.

 

[withoutaface]

I don't think its the best of ideas, simply because we have a much smaller subject range than VIC so what would happen, do they get fewer subjects, or do we get more. Also look at QLD, they don't even sit end of year exams like we do! It'll be too difficult, and I think a bit stupid.

Rather superficial issues when you consider that we're talking about a major overhaul of the Australian education system, of course there are going to be creases to iron out.

I doubt they would because some people are naturally more humanitarian inclined and some more mathematically/scientifically inclined. Personally, I'm much stronger at humanitarian subjects!!! Although, I'm now finished the HSC so it no longer affects me!!!

Like I said on another thread, they should DEFINITELY try and make it a little less stressful! I found Year 12 really stressful

I'd actually be hoping that they make it so that people have to select one subject from each type (sciences, mathematics, english, lote, social sciences etc) as is the case in the IB because this means that people are assessed across a wider range of areas which could potentially be useful in later life, as well as making sure it isn't skewed towards the humanities side of things as the HSC is at present (with English being compulsory and maths not, for example).

How do you know that it's going to be based on the NSW system, there different in each state. Not all of which let you just pick your 5 best subjects and English. I don't think it's a particularly good idea but it depends how they're going to work. Plus they said on the news the reason for it was because they reckon the HSC is too easy. Which it's not. Anyway I suppose it doesn't much matter to me anymore.

i think it is screwy cos they r saying it is too easy? what the hell? what do they know??? like, nothing

IMO the HSC does become easy once you recognise that it is not testing your ability, but rather it is a game set by the Board with its own stupid rules and you must play within those rules. Once you realise this you stop stressing and begin studying smart, and it is at this point that the HSC becomes relatively straightforward.

I'd say the HSC is easy for lower-middle ability students, as their marks often get aligned to a large degree e.g. you could get 20% in an exam and it will be reported as 50 because "you met the minimum standards of the course".
It's difficult for top students because of the competition at the top, but nonetheless, the marks still appear inflated.

Imo, it'd be too difficult to implement an Australia-wide syllabus/exam:
1. It'd take years to gradually change course content from K-12.
2. It's not that easy for each of the states to come to a consensus on what should and shouldn't be included for each subject.
3. It would require a new universities admission method.
4. There are little things that make sitting a nation-wide exam difficult e.g. Perth is a few hours behind Sydney - they could easily get the exam questions before the exam unless everyone sits the exam at exactly the same time

1. So far as I can see it there are only minor differences in the syllabus in years K-10 (or 1-10 in some states which don't have kindergarten) and also I think it has been earmarked as a long term plan, rather than a quick solution.
2. While I agree this is an issue, perhaps it would be better to get academics from different universities to stipulate exactly what they want in incumbant undergraduates and work with that as well as some input from the states to prepare syllabi to adequately prepare students for both university and direct entry into the workforce.
3. The UAI/TER/OP is essentially comparable across states as it is now anyway, and since you wouldn't have huge numbers of students crossing borders to go to university I think you could keep the existing UAC and other state equivalents.
4. Have those in Perth sit it at 9 and those in Sydney sit it at 12, problem solved

it would be heaps fairer.. from what i hear from friends in queensland.. it's much easier to get into some of the uni courses >_<"

national hsc all the way >:

The same number of people get into university courses regardless of the system so the ease of getting in is going to be the same when all students are taken into account.

Seriously though, if they imitated the IB, I'd be all for it. I can only picturing those idiots (not all of BoS, just certain people) dumbing it down even more though, to cater for the kids doing physics who don't know what x means when it is used as a number.

I agree totally

I saw this on the front page of the paper today (tele i think) didnt read it tho
I think what they mean is like a HSC for all over Australia, not different HSC in different states- much more competition

More people doing it but you should fall in an almost identical percentile as if it were assessed individually in each state.

In conclusion, bring in the IB and make that the standard leaving certificate, there is a reason why it is the international standard, and that is because it's the best method devised of testing large numbers of students from a broad range of backgrounds.

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

4. Have those in Perth sit it at 9 and those in Sydney sit it at 12, problem solved

I was thinking along the same lines, but I thought I'd throw it in anyway - besides, 12pm is lunch time...

 

[withoutaface]

10 and 1 then

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

10 and 1 then

I often feel sleepy after eating lunch...don't ask me why. You did biology, so maybe you can explain it - does it take away extra energy to digest food or something?

 

[withoutaface]

That'd be more PDHPE I think

 

[ur_inner_child]

i think the pressure we already put on the hsc is tremendous, with the media on it, as well as the first to receive the information.

To think that you have to compete with not the rest of the state, but Australia, with the media all over it, it's incredibly daunting.

Although it happens with other countries, like China and America (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) they MAY perform much better with the rest of the world at times, but those two countries are famous for the amount of stressed out students, aren't they? How many teenage suicides?

I know I have no statistics to support my argument, but you can't deny the pressure will be on.

I hope it's a very gradual change.

 

[tennille]

I doubt they will change it to a national test. I mean, the syllabus in each state is completely different to the other states, so the change will be quite dramatic.

 

[melsc]

i would not wanna do the IB...they do it in france...and from what i've seen of it...there are alot of compulsary subjects...i think they should develop a new exam which suits aussies...
also what is this they r saying the HSC is too easy...i dunno about other states exam..but i think the HSC is very competitive

 

[Slidey]

I doubt they will change it to a national test. I mean, the syllabus in each state is completely different to the other states, so the change will be quite dramatic.

You're wrong. Have you actually juxtaposed different state syllabi for the same subject?

i think the pressure we already put on the hsc is tremendous, with the media on it, as well as the first to receive the information.

You're right, but that's a discussion for another day. If you want to remove a lot of the stress; hype, cut down the media coverage, or make the media actually give some positive coverage! (positive media coverage? oxymoron)

To think that you have to compete with not the rest of the state, but Australia, with the media all over it, it's incredibly daunting.

Oh? Why do you say that? I see nothing dauting about it. It would be good if you could elaborate on this point, because as far as I see it, it is a matter of self-created worry. Your ability level wouldn't suddenly change - you'd essentially get the same rank, unless one state is overall smarter than another state - for which there is no evidence. And finally, the HSC is not about competing - it's about doing well personally. You don't have to beat everyone to do well.

Although it happens with other countries, like China and America (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) they MAY perform much better with the rest of the world at times, but those two countries are famous for the amount of stressed out students, aren't they? How many teenage suicides?

At the risk of sounding racist, which I am not, I think China's methods of teaching are flawed (so are Australia's, as I'll point out to you anytime), specifically in that they seem to focus directly ON stressing their students out in an attempt to make them do well. IMHO, a lot of the stress which exists in the Chinese education system is deliberately generated - by parents, by teachers. Maybe somebody who is Chinese can comment on that, though. I have no first-hand experience. The problem with generating stress to cause somebody to do well is a simple one - it is psychologically unsound.

America - it's in ways similar to Australia. At the top, they cater to people far better than Australia, but otherwise there's not that much of a deviation. Certainly I think it'd be folly to say their schooling is any more stressful than the HSC is. As to teen suicides, I have a feeling there is not a significant portion whose reasons are based on school. Neither of us has evidence on teen suicides, though, so it can essentially be ejected from the discussion until concrete information si provided on it.

I know I have no statistics to support my argument, but you can't deny the pressure will be on.

I can deny that the pressure will increase. You can't get much worse media coverage which instills stress than NSW currently has. And further, taking into account the sense of unity which would be gained from an ACE, I think there would be a greater effort made to make it work, as everybody would be in the same situation. A site such as Bored would flourish by orders of magnitude more, but in just schools, people would be more inclined to work together.

But you know what the biggest reaction would be? Apathy. In the end I don't think most people care whether it's called an ACE or a HSC or a Leaving Certificate... assuming the media doesn't play one of their stupid little games with it.

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

We could have a standardised national syllabus and exam in which we simply receive marks back and no specific ranking such as the UAI. I believe it would be better to introduce university entrance exams into all states. This would discourage students from selecting subjects that don't interest them, but which they're doing merely for the title (such as Physics and Ext 2 maths). Students would actually choose subjects that are relevant to the uni course/s they want to do. Even though a lot of students have no clue as to what uni course they might want to do, every student must have an interest that lies somewhere...

I also believe it would eliminate the number of students who choose a uni course with a high UAI cut-off simply because they got a high UAI and want to flaunt their abilities...when that course doesn't even interest them at all in the first place.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

OK.. i study interstate..
guess wat?
their sciences are more comprehensive than NSW..
their maths isnt as difficult but more modern

why should there be a national leaving cert.?
because this would add a uniformity to school leavers and would allow students to move interstate without having to relearn a heap of topics..

it allows all yr 12 students to have an actual standard.. cos altho i got 90+ in all my sciences.. i have to do about 2-3 hours in work that is assumed to have been taught.. but NSW is behind.. it will allow us to study overseas more easily... because conversions will be easier and stds will be known

NSW is competitive.. this would lift the National Standard up..
in NSW a IB of 42 out of 45 is about 99.6
but in Vic it is about 99.7
and in SA it is about 99.95
but UAI= ENTER= TER are all equivalent!? so why is there an inconsistency for IB but not tertiary ranks? we are gettin ripped.. Students who may not deserve a place are gettin one..

a national cert will make things fairer.. and a stronger cert for student.. .

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

You can't compare UAIs and TERs directly, because they aren't equivalent i.e. a UAI of 95 =/ a TER of 95 - you need a table to match up a UAI with it's equivalent TER. That said, having three or four different meaurements of students' rankings can be misleading to employers so in that respect having a standardised method of uni entrance is necessary - and as I said in my post above, I think uni entrance exams should be introduced to solve this problem.

 

[Slidey]

Uni entrance exams are used in America. I can certainly see the benefits of them, however, it would perhaps lead to people not taking school seriously and merely cramming for the uni exams at the end of school.

What do you think?

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Uni entrance exams are used in America. I can certainly see the benefits of them, however, it would perhaps lead to people not taking school seriously and merely cramming for the uni exams at the end of school.

What do you think?

True.
You could have prerequisite marks e.g. to do BCom you require a Band 5 in Advanced English & a Band 5 in Economics and/or Business Studies - that might act as an incentive for people to work harder throughout the year, although I can already see problems arising with that method e.g. people who don't know what uni course they want to do will be automatically excluded unless they've done the prereq. courses etc.

I don't think there is a fool-proof method of determining uni entrance, but at least using entrance exams + possible prereq. marks would eliminate the emphasis on a UAI and would actually encourage students to take up subjects they enjoy and/or need

Unis will always be looking to skim the cream of the crop for their courses, so pressure and stress on students to perform are going to be unavoidable no matter what method of selection is chosen.

 

[withoutaface]

True.
You could have prerequisite marks e.g. to do BCom you require a Band 5 in Advanced English & a Band 5 in Economics and/or Business Studies - that might act as an incentive for people to work harder throughout the year, although I can already see problems arising with that method e.g. people who don't know what uni course they want to do will be automatically excluded unless they've done the prereq. courses etc.

I don't think there is a fool-proof method of determining uni entrance, but at least using entrance exams + possible prereq. marks would eliminate the emphasis on a UAI and would actually encourage students to take up subjects they enjoy and/or need

Unis will always be looking to skim the cream of the crop for their courses, so pressure and stress on students to perform are going to be unavoidable no matter what method of selection is chosen.

That can be evaded by having a finance subject subgroup that everyone has to do a subject from, IB style, so a band 5 in a finance subject...