The 'left' = dirty? (2 Viewers)

[braindrainedAsh]

My last post was right on topic and wasn't really about immigration. It was proving my point from an earlier post in this topic (and countering a statement which you made earlier) that there are ranters who don't put much consideration behind their opinions on both sides of politics.

Maybe the fact that people like John Laws/Alan Jones and the folks that call up their shows are a reflection of mainstream Australian culture is what the problem here is. Maybe right wing ranting has become socially acceptable, perhaps it is even the norm, while "ranting" on left wing issues still has not gained the same acceptance. Perhaps it could even come down the commercial nature of the popular media in Australia. Who knows.... but these could be contributing reasons to what I said earlier about power being concentrated to the right, so the left is seen as unacceptable social rebellion. I mean, even the ALP is a little right wing these days. There must be some cause for so much anti lefty sentiment.

 

[Monkey Butler]

I think it all just comes down to economics. People in general want as much as possible as quickly as possible, for themselves. The fact that the left doesn't necessarily support that stance means that alot of people are going to dismiss the left outright. EDIT: Shit, that was a bad pun. Unintentional, but still really, really bad.

 

[withoutaface]

I think it's actually the other way, at university at least. When people find out you're a member of the Liberal club it's met with comments such as "ewww Liberals", even if they're only semi-serious it's still indicative of an underlying resentment of the current government and all those associated with them.

I think a lot of those on the Left are on the Left not because they understand the beliefs of that side of the spectrum, but because they see it as the possible belief that gives regard for its fellow man, and are afraid of what others may think of them if they believe otherwise.

 

[heybraham]

This is a worthy thread, McLake, so try not to close it down too soon (please).

There seems to be a belief (on this forum, at least) that an association with the 'left' is something that one should avoid at all costs (White Rabbit in the 1 July thread, for example). Basically, I would like to know what is it that makes the 'left' dirty, as some would say. More often than not, people seem to argue that it's to be expected given the simplisitic rantings of many on the 'left', but as we all know that is hardly limited to any particular political stance.

Does anyone (I'm thinking of NTB and possibly Jonathon A in particular) have a some what rational answer?

you want a rational answer? september 11 2001.

it was a single event that sparked a perpetual cycle into conservatism. leftist views are founded on the belief that people are naturally 'good' and rightist views are the contrary; that humans are incompetent and need monitoring.

conservatists + terrorists = coalition to rule the world. war is peace.

 

[stamos]

I appear to be the only convicted authoritative right on here (well for as long as I have been on here that is).

what were you charged for?

 

[absolution*]

Dirty fucking hippies.

 

[Sarah]

Well this is my p.o.v, left is associated with a more collectivist stance. Right is associated with a more individualistic stance.

You only have to look at changes in Australian society from the 1980's to now. Changes in social structure in which even ppl from disadvantaged backgrounds e.g Financial, language barriers can gain an education. Additionally, changes in structural change to the economy has granted that people are now moving towards the tertiary and services sector so there's been a growth of white collar workers and decline in the primary sector as reflected by growth in large corporate organisations.

Also, there's been a significant increase in secondary and tertiary education and so there's more opportunities for ppl to get a good job. This has facilitated a type of individualism and also a loosening of social obligations. Not sure if this is even relevant, but indicative on what i've just said are those self-help books out there e.g Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Those books place an emphasis more on the self and improving the self in contrast to social obligations.

I'm not sure why exactly you mean by the left = 'dirty', but i think it's more like the left being frowned upon as it goes against what the right promotes

 

[hiphophooray123]

Well this is my p.o.v, left is associated with a more collectivist stance. Right is associated with a more individualistic stance.

thats not a P.O.V that's basically the definition lol. That's the way i was taught

left - collectivist
right - individual

 

[malkin86]

Maybe the left are dirty because they really really care about water restrictions...


I see myself as born to be left. That is, the circumstances of my birth and rearing lead me to beliefs which match up most closely with the left wing. I could never vote for the current Liberal party, as in my situation, I'd have to have less than half a brain.

This says more about how I feel about my situation and several speeches and policies made by this government than it does about the intelligence of the rightist members of this board and the respect that I hold for them. I don't want to go further into the exact nuances of my situation, and I hope that everyone can respect this.

 

[Counterfeit]

STOP!!

I’m surprised this thread has hit 3 pages and is still going strong.

Why bother. No one is going to give into the others argument.

Basically, left or right, the majority of you contain stereotypical attributes of both sides, that is most of you are narrow minded, ignorant, senseless idiots.

To be purely left or right is a sad thing, you need to find a balance and not be so wrapped up in your own "correct" views that you can't see the real issue.


So why bother labeling your self, why not just be sensible, rational and see the facts in the given situation.
Don't act how you're supposed to because of your given stance, just take a moment,
observe the situation,
I mean really tear it apart,
Make sure you’re actually educated and informed on the issue
drop your preconceptions
then put forward a rational un bias and sound argument.

Does that make sense? Because at the moment most of you don't.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Why bother. No one is going to give into the others argument.

Actually i wouldn't call this an argument.

 

[Counterfeit]

Actually i wouldn't call this an argument.

no, arguemnts contain substance, and have a structure or some sort

this is a petty quarrel. "oo im better than you cuz youre a dumb poo brain wee face"

 

[Comrade nathan]

no, arguemnts contain substance, and have a structure or some sort

this is a petty quarrel. "oo im better than you cuz youre a dumb poo brain wee face"

What the fuck is your problem? No one is having a petty quarrel people are just putting ideas forward.

 

[Meldrum]

Counterfeit, I'll let you go this time 'cause you're new.

 

[withoutaface]

no, arguemnts contain substance, and have a structure or some sort

this is a petty quarrel. "oo im better than you cuz youre a dumb poo brain wee face"

I don't think anyone, except perhaps antimathmite (but I've learned not to read his posts), was saying anything of that sort.

 

[Sarah]

thats not a P.O.V that's basically the definition lol. That's the way i was taught

left - collectivist
right - individual

Well, from an economic perspective, you can look at left being a closed market economy and right being and open market economy (which are influenced by the ideas of collectivism and indivdualism). That's just another perspective of what left and right is though.

STOP!!

I’m surprised this thread has hit 3 pages and is still going strong.

Why bother. No one is going to give into the others argument.

this is a petty quarrel. "oo im better than you cuz youre a dumb poo brain wee face"

Actually, most of the ppl who've posted answers aren't aguing or quarrelling over which side is better than the other. Most answers contain opinions on why the left is considered dirty and why it holds the image associated with it

 

[Riewe]

I have been past Byron Bay, and most people do look dirty and feral (at least what i saw) and because they are considered hippie-leftists, logical deduction means that left = dirty.

And also, i don't know when the last time was when a right-wing protest resorted to property damage and attacks to police, which just further enhances this lefty stereotype.

 

[Comrade nathan]

And also, i don't know when the last time was when a right-wing protest resorted to property damage and attacks to police, which just further enhances this lefty stereotype.

In Europe the extreme right wingers will use violence, and alot worse then what the Left use.

 

[Phanatical]

This ain't europe.

Also, a "Comrade" is a slang term for a homosexual.

 

[absolution*]

In Europe the extreme right wingers will use violence, and alot worse then what the Left use.

As if its only in Europe.