Update me on VSU (1 Viewer)

[Generator]

Again, you attack her... and not her argument. I reckon we could dig up alot of dirt on you too if we could peer into your memories, your life, to show that you're not exactly in a position of purity to be proclaiming yourself of good heart either.

What is the argument of these "prominent figureheads" and "university faculties" ? Don't just name drop, give us their arguments.



Why does a system where people can choose to pay, or not pay fundamentally seem greedy over a system where a minority (or even a majority) forces the others to pay?

Unlike comrade, walrusbear was just stating the obvious. He wasn't attacking her, and that should have been more than obvious given that he had taken the time to respond to katie's posts.

As for the arguments of prominent figureheads and administrators, I know that you are well aware of such arguments, so don't try and suggest he is just pulling such a claim out of thin air in order to further his point.

It seems greedy as it favours individual self-interest over the greater benefit for all. It isn't necessarily an argument that I would expect a neoliberal to accept, though (you, however, can at least recognise the point, unlike some others arguing in favour of VSU).

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Unlike comrade, walrusbear was just stating the obvious. He wasn't attacking her, and that should have been more than obvious given that he had taken the time to respond to katie's posts.

No, I'm fairly sure that every time he mentioned that she was from highschool it was to belittle her character and make her argument seem less valid.

As for the arguments of prominent figureheads and administrators, I know that you are well aware of such arguments, so don't try and suggest he is just pulling such a claim out of thin air in order to further his point.

Yes, but what does it matter? It doesn't bring anything new to the argument?

It seems greedy as it favours individual self-interest over the greater benefit for all.

Most arguments I hear for vsu, at least around my uni/my campuses, are generally targetted toward greed. "You will lose cheaper food, You will lose the Bus service, You will lose blah blah", I really doubt that too many people care about the university at large.

 

[Xayma]

It seems greedy as it favours individual self-interest over the greater benefit for all. It isn't necessarily an argument that I would expect a neoliberal to accept, though (you, however, can at least recognise the point, unlike some others arguing in favour of VSU).

Thats the thing, it doesn't provide greater benefit for all. It provides benefit for some and loss for others.

The biggest risk to the unions I think next year is the parents who currently pay their childrens union fees refusing to pay them next year.

 

[Generator]

How is it that you won't get an educational experience due to it being a commodity? Has the fact that you pay for your degree actually negated the educational experience of university making it almost a shop where you just walk up and buy a degree? I think not. The traditional notion of a university was that it was a place for rich nobelmen and their sons to gain a bit of knowledge. Oh the good old days!

It is becoming more of a commodity, NTB, and the hardline VSU legislation will in all likelihood create an experience where a university basically resembles a mass production line with minimal opportunities for extra-curricular activities (yes, I do believe that such activities are at risk, though not quite at risk of extinction). As for the traditional notion, I said 'traditional', and I thought that that was more than clear in suggesting that I was referring to the holistic experience that walrusbear has been mentioning for some time.

Thats the thing, it doesn't provide greater benefit for all. It provides benefit for some and loss for others.

The biggest risk to the unions I think next year is the parents who currently pay their childrens union fees refusing to pay them next year.

As far as I'm concerned, it does provide greater benefit for all, whether they use a social, welfare or academic service or not. However, it's quite clear that you are one of those who is unable to even grasp such a concept, so any argument would serve no purpose.

That is a risk, and it's one that I will be forced to deal with, however hard it may be on the pocket.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How will it be a mass production line? I don't see how free thought in the class-room, vigorous debate and meeting new people/making friends will really end or even be marginalised by vsu?

Someone who uses the union services, and is scared about vsu because they don't want to personally lose what they currently have. Are they greedy? (yes). Now how many people who want usu to stay are probably doing it for 'the sake of the community', and how many of them are just using that as a convenient disguise?

The traditional thing was just a joke, i probably shouldn't have put it into a serious discussion but o well.

I gotta go to uni to enjoy the holistic experience.

 

[Generator]

How will it be a mass production line? I don't see how free thought in the class-room, vigorous debate and meeting new people/making friends will really end or even be marginalised by vsu?

The traditional thing was just a joke, i probably shouldn't have put it into a serious discussion but o well.

Surely you cannot believe that such activities on a university campus only take place within the classroom, and that classroom interaction is the only basis from which campus life springs?

VSU will not be the end of campus life, but it will remove a number of limbs.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Unlike comrade, walrusbear was just stating the obvious.

How was i not stating the obvious?

 

[katie_tully]

How was i not stating the obvious?

Only the fact that it has been brought up each and everytime somebody wanted to undermine my argument. Personally I find it irrelevant as to whether I attend university right now. I plan to next year, thus it affects me.

 

[leetom]

No. What irks me is that people like yourself expect others to fund services they don't use, purely because you have this concept in your mind that it benefits others, thus they should contribute.

What I also cannot comprehend is why you people don't believe that if as many people want the services, as you say they do, then why won't the services still exist?. What irks me is the fact that you obviously don't grasp the idea of "pay per use" services.

To me, what is primitive, is the idea that we are selfish because we want to keep our money for ourselves, to use how we see fit, when infact isn't it selfish to expect others to pay for things they don't use, just because others do? What the?

See Tully, I expect everybody to fund services because whether you or me as individuals use them or not, they are of great assistence to those who do need to use them. It is also comforting to know that I can make use of a service whenever I please because I am entitled to do so as I contributed to it's existence.

I realise Tully, that being of your particular ideological persuasion, you either fail to or refuse to acknowledge the greater communal benfits of the Union's existence. The Union props up organisations of massive cultural and national importance. As a nation, we are obliged to see to it that our cultural ability is suffciently expressed through the existence of art's students theatre productions and what have you within the art realm. The other cultural bastion though, is sporting achievement. The Union supports sporting prowess and subsidises sporting organisations in order for all Australian uni students to take part in something that is a national birthrite- sport.

It is the belieof the champions of culture and national ability that in order to be a successful and prosperous nation, we should all collectively contribute to the exposition of our ability.

If we allow your crippling tantrums of individual rights to prevail, which in actual fact is merely a gross contempt for the community's wellebing, we will become a cultural spittoon of individualist little bastards, who out of their supreme concern for their own individual beings destroy our national ability as a whole.

 

[Xayma]

As far as I'm concerned, it does provide greater benefit for all, whether they use a social, welfare or academic service or not. However, it's quite clear that you are one of those who is unable to even grasp such a concept, so any argument would serve no purpose.

That is a risk, and it's one that I will be forced to deal with, however hard it may be on the pocket.

I understand that there are services that should be funded by students, I would prefer something that protects basic student services such as Appeal Processes (limited to a maximum amount such as $50 a year).

What I can not see is how Wine Tasting Societies, Subsidised junk food and Rock Climbing (given that the last two cancel each other out ) benefits anyone other then those who take advantage of them.

 

[llamalope]

Did anybody go on the protest today? I was otherwise detained, so I couldn't go... what happened? I heard 2 people got arrested... I'd laugh if one of them was Rose Jackson

 

[jellybeenz]

I went... but I left at about 2:30, I didnt see anyone arrested...

Man... sometimes I hate these rallies-- I feel like they give me hope, make me feel like we can still fight VSU, make me feel like we can make a difference-- all for a couple of hours. Then I come home and the reality sets in that the coalition control the senate and there isn't a goddam thing I can do about it.

 

[withoutaface]

Best. Protest. Ever.

Besides the certain news source claiming that Young Libs were throwing bottles, which is completely false.

 

[frog12986]

The protest today was extremely industrious s.....

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I went... but I left at about 2:30, I didnt see anyone arrested...

Man... sometimes I hate these rallies-- I feel like they give me hope, make me feel like we can still fight VSU, make me feel like we can make a difference-- all for a couple of hours. Then I come home and the reality sets in that the coalition control the senate and there isn't a goddam thing I can do about it.

Wow, you're a loser.

 

[jellybeenz]

Wow, you're a loser.

I guess if you say it, it must be true.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No seriously, think about what you just said. You go to rallies and they make u feel all warm and fuzzy then u come home and cry that the coalition has control?

Jesus christ.

 

[withoutaface]

An interesting piece of trivia is that the Union constitution forbids any board directors from endorsing VSU. Student silence, much?

 

[braindrainedAsh]

http://www.uts.edu.au/new/index.html

Couldn't go today, had to work. I heard it was the Young Libs that were throwing bottles....

 

[HubertDale]

I don't know if this has been asked before but can somebody show me a chart or statistics of somesort of where my f`ucking $400 per year goes and how much of that $400 actually goes to something that I use?