Update me on VSU (1 Viewer)

[withoutaface]

If all you're getting out of University is a degree, then I really feel sorry for you.

So you're telling me you'd pay $7000 a year HECS + whatever it costs for transport, accomodation, alcohol etc if you weren't going to get a degree at the end of it? NTB's point was that while the degree isn't everything, not many of us would be at university without it.

 

[Comrade nathan]

So you're telling me you'd pay $7000 a year HECS + whatever it costs for transport, accomodation, alcohol etc if you weren't going to get a degree at the end of it? NTB's point was that while the degree isn't everything, not many of us would be at university without it.

White rabit did not say that. What s/he was saying is that there is more to Univerisity then the degree. No one is saying they would go to Uni if there wasn't a degree at the end. Most would agree the main reason is the degree, that doesn't mean that is it.

 

[White Rabbit]

So you're telling me you'd pay $7000 a year HECS + whatever it costs for transport, accomodation, alcohol etc if you weren't going to get a degree at the end of it? NTB's point was that while the degree isn't everything, not many of us would be at university without it.

I didn't say that, I simply pointed out there is much more to Uni than a degree. If it weren't for the social life, I doubt I'd currently be at CSU. Furthermore, I'd be paying accommodation, alcohol and food regardless of whether or not I'd be at Uni. Yes, I need my degree, however my choice of Unis and the reason I chose to study internally as opposed to DE was due to the social life, for if that did not exist, I'd have elected to do the EN course through my local area health service, and then done my last 2 years through Distance Ed, rather than going straight to Uni and going the 3 years on campus.

Thanks Nathan

 

[MaryJane]

I go to MQ, and we pay just under $400 a year of uni fees. And for that, we get jack shit, and I really do mean jack shit. We get a discount card from SAM, which gives us more discounts from places off campus than on. If you're a member then you get about a .30 saving on food on campus, which is already priced as if you were in MQ centre because its all outsourced. The fees also go to our SRC which is corrupt, and we as students have just been stripped of our right to vote, so why the hell should we give those pricks money?! And the the last bit of the fees go to MUSA (sports association), so that we can get a reduced price admission to the gym ($7 instead of $13), and the equipment is crap and hasnt been updated in ages.

I can understand why some students are passionate about keeping fees compulsory, but really, if you have good facilities and students acknowledge that, organisations probably wont experience much of a drop in funding because students will opt to keep paying. I, for one, will not pay my fee's if VSU is introduced (and I'm praying that it is), because I get nothing for my $400.

I'd pay for the medical centre and necessities like that because they are worthwhile having on campus and we get them for free (bulk billing), but at the moment, none of our fees go to such worthy organisations, only the three crap ones that I mentioned above.

 

[Phanatical]

The ol' ball and chain is doing three consecutive degrees at USYD, MQ and CSU. Of these three organisations, she insists that if VSU comes in next year - she'll gladly pay the MQ fee, because she gets the most out of it. Gets more out of SAM than the USYD Union gives us.

 

[MaryJane]

Hmmm, really? I thought USYD was really good regarding their fees. I guessed that from all the protesters from USYD I heard on Hack on JJJ ages ago.. or are they all just shit-stirrers? It must be pretty crappy at USYD if she insists that SAM gives her more!

 

[Phanatical]

The "Save VSU" campaign is most prominent at our university, because our Union and SRC are spending the most money on it. Like most powerful student unions, it is dominated by the Labor Left faction and the Socialist/Green bloc, who rely on student funding to maintain their rubbish political protests. With USYD's ridiculously high fees ($540 a year, $590 in the first year - and it's not deferable, which presents a very large problem for less fortunate students), USYD students are generally pissed off at the Union and the SRC.

Naomi prefers MQ's student organisations, because they provide the same services as the USYD Union, but do so in a far easier to access manner. Their staff are friendlier, their societies are just as good, if not better than our own (I say this as a USYD Union Society Vice-President), and there's a lot less bullshit going on at your student organisations than there is at ours. In fact, aside from a few insignificant things, USYD's student organisations do not offer any student service that MQ's doesn't.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If all you're getting out of University is a degree, then I really feel sorry for you.

No, I'm getting more out of university. But the fact that we're all at university, that we're all going to university to get a degree, is a permeating factor that means even without the union we are still united.

I didn't say that, I simply pointed out there is much more to Uni than a degree. If it weren't for the social life, I doubt I'd currently be at CSU. Furthermore, I'd be paying accommodation, alcohol and food regardless of whether or not I'd be at Uni. Yes, I need my degree, however my choice of Unis and the reason I chose to study internally as opposed to DE was due to the social life, for if that did not exist, I'd have elected to do the EN course through my local area health service, and then done my last 2 years through Distance Ed, rather than going straight to Uni and going the 3 years on campus.

And I didn't say that university was all about getting a degree, congratulations u just said a whole bunch of crap for no reason. But it's good to hear that despite the fact that you would have rathered do a course through distance ed (if it was not for the uni social life), given that I'm assuming the government is now paying extra for your accomodation/classroom space just so you can have some friends.

Good one.

 

[walrusbear]

any other USU supporters going to the rally tomorrow?

the fight doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere...

 

[withoutaface]

I'll be rallying.

 

[katie_tully]

I can't stand people who say -

If all you're getting out of University is a degree, then I really feel sorry for you.

Get over it. Why other people go to university, and what other people do there is none of your business, and should not be open to debate by others.

 

[withoutaface]

...well as long as what they do doesn't involve any of withoutafaces money.

Why are you so strongly against the concept of user-pays?

 

[katie_tully]

...well as long as what they do doesn't involve any of withoutafaces money.

Excellent. Exactly. Why should waf fork out for other's to "have a good time".

 

[withoutaface]

Thats not the point. My comment wasn't about money.



Essentially Tully is right. No one cares or should judge why and what people go to university for.

I pretty much only go to uni for the degree. For the classes. Nothing else. But the comment is a tad hypocritical when people, like withoutaface, starting harping on about what the union and its people do, obviously concerned by why, what and how people use their university experience.

My comment is that if I wish to be a member of the Union next year I will pay for it, and in turn because those who do not use the services will not be members of the Union I will in fact be paying for closer to what I use, as opposed to having others fund my university experience against their will, and I am happier with this arrangement than the current one because I do not want others paying for me. By the same token, the SRC and Sports Unions provide nothing of value to me (and in the case of the former many of the services provided actually being of detriment to me), and as such I will not be joining there organisations, leaving it to those who use their services to fund them.

 

[withoutaface]

The only difference is that you see the government's subsidisation of your education as socially important (as some may see sport as socially important) whereas a 50 year old man who has no kids may rue the fact that bloody kids have their education subsidised by his taxes. Why can't they user pays!!!!Goddamit!

I personally think that HECS should be upped to cover the full expense of my education.

 

[withoutaface]

Thats not very user pays Calculon.

Yes it is. The benefit to society is reflected in the fact that the students are given interest free loans for their fees which don't necessarily have to be paid back until they can afford them.

 

[ogmzergrush]

The NSW Court System is subsidised by the state. Subsidised by you. The NSW Court system is only used by a very small minority of people. The NSW Court system would not operate if it was not subsidised.

Is that really a reasonable comparison, given that despite the fact that we don't all *use* it, one would be inclined to think that we all benefit from its operation? This is in contrast to say, a sporting field, which does precious little for non-participants, unless the argument goes that we all benefit because it's helping reduce the number of fat bastards we need to look at each day (Questionable, because I still see plenty ).

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Thats not the point. My comment wasn't about money.



Essentially Tully is right. No one cares or should judge why and what people go to university for.

I pretty much only go to uni for the degree. For the classes. Nothing else. But the comment is a tad hypocritical when people, like withoutaface, starting harping on about what the union and its people do, obviously concerned by why, what and how people use their university experience.

But the comment is a tad hypocritical when people, like withoutaface, starting harping on about what the union and its people do, obviously concerned by why, what and how people use their university experience.

Well when I hear from a pro-usu person that they are only going to university (at a cost to us) for the social life, and could have done their degree elsewhere... it makes me sad to think that people are paying extra money for them to have fun. Usually when I raise this type of argument people claim they are too poor for anything else or some other excuse which is fairly radical and probably untrue..

 

[ogmzergrush]

Some people may rank Sport almost as highly as maintaining a functioning judicial system.

There are also people who like to shit on each other in order to get their rocks off. I'm sure there are even some people who think it is very important, maybe we can get a government subsidy happening for that too, to help buy tarpaulans or something? I'd say if we put enough money into it, we could compete with Germany in the scat porn industry and make a lot of money from it, and I think people learn a lot about themselves by being crapped on. Now that I think about it it's definitely a vital investment for Australia's future. Despite the fact that most people have no interest in crapping on each other, or being crapped on, they should still pay, because it's apparently good for the country, I'm liking the sound of this, and I'm sure I'm not the only one (Not that it matters, because being in the minority doesn't come into it when we're discussing the well-being of the nation).

Now, on a more serious note, I think that under a user pays system, sporting facilities would maintain themselves, assuming that enough people value sport to the extent where it's comparable to the courts.

 

[Skillo]

Surely Xayma, out of conern for the preservation and continuity of national culture, you would be prepared to fund the theatre?

(YEEEEESSS! What a comment! VSU or no VSU! LOL)

Well, Xayma isn't exactly the 'artsy' type.