Who thinks the HSC is unfair? (2 Viewers)

[study-freak]

Michael (Jetblack..) did a fair bit of research into it through asking medical professionals - he reckons Sydney, but PM him for details and elaboration into why.

I'm doing combined law with zero interest in med, so I'm no help.

ETA: Wait, so didn't you get a Scientia as well as the USyd scholarship? (automatic ATAR related thing)

Oh, okay. Thanks heaps for the info!

And umm, for UNSW med, only the top 2 people with the best combined scores comprising interview+UMAT+ATAR get it. I don't think I stand a chance with 93%tile UMAT.
But I got the Usyd one.

 

[wendybird]

Oh, okay. Thanks heaps for the info!

And umm, for UNSW med, only the top 2 people with the best combined scores comprising interview+UMAT+ATAR get it. I don't think I stand a chance with 93%tile UMAT.
But I got the Usyd one.

Oh! I had no idea they took into account our courses!
I got a Scientia (turning it down though). I'm so excited for my friend then!!!!!! Her preference at UNSW was Med and with a 99.9 she got a Scientia - wow good for her!

But so many ppl I talk to want to go to USyd for Med rather than UNSW - so I imagine many are very envious of you!

 

[Ishynooshy]

If people feel so passionate about talking about the active discrimination between the humanities and the science subjects within the HSC, they are only making excuses for their lack of effort during the year. Those that think that they didn't have the opportunity to show what they really can achieve within the subject either should have spent time looking for institutions that offer the IB instead of wasting their time complaining on internet forums OR learn the adage: Life's a bitch-DEAL WITH IT!

The sentiment that science courses are well catered for is completely false. I for one, felt like tearing my hair out at many times during the year, despite how much I do enjoy science. I do a lot of work outside of the HSC syllabus which I know will prepare me for tertiary study, but this is obviously not assessed. I just accepted the fact that my ATAR is going to be lower than what it could have been if I had done the IB.

 

[study-freak]

Oh! I had no idea they took into account our courses!
I got a Scientia (turning it down though). I'm so excited for my friend then!!!!!! Her preference at UNSW was Med and with a 99.9 she got a Scientia - wow good for her!

But so many ppl I talk to want to go to USyd for Med rather than UNSW - so I imagine many are very envious of you!

Haha, I am lucky, I guess.

Btw, technically, I got the scientia scholarship (got a phone call for this), but it's not specifically for med. If I get into any courses other than med at UNSW, I'll get the scholarship. But for med, I believe that they haven't announced the recipients yet?
I could be wrong.
(Unless the person who called your friend specifically said "scientia for medicine," she prob got the 'normal' scientia.)

Btw, if you are turning scientia down, are you going to go to Usyd? or somewhere else?

 

[wendybird]

Haha, I am lucky, I guess.

Btw, technically, I got the scientia scholarship (got a phone call for this), but it's not specifically for med. If I get into any courses other than med at UNSW, I'll get the scholarship. But for med, I believe that they haven't announced the recipients yet?
I could be wrong.

ah. getcha. She just got the call, but might not get the scholarship if she did med there. Ouch - harsh!

In monetary terms - Sydney methinks. But really, Sydney is the most prestigious, go to the day on 5th Jan and talk to the faculty there!

they are only making excuses for their lack of effort during the year.

I disagree with this. I think you're missing the point - some of the recent posts have discussed the "level" of effort for humanities subjects as opposed to traditionally high scaling ones (maths/science). Of course to get a high ATAR you would have to put effort into either field and do well in either field. But imo, for you to get the top ATARs on all humanities, you would have to do EXTRORADINARILY well, not just well.

I don't particularly feel resentful, nor did it impact it me very much, but it is an observation of mine that the 100UAIers of the past mostly had the asian combo, or had lots of classical languages, or if it was on all humanities, were VERY high level (state ranking) humanities.

 

[study-freak]

ah. getcha. She just got the call, but might not get the scholarship if she did med there. Ouch - harsh!

In monetary terms - Sydney methinks. But really, Sydney is the most prestigious, go to the day on 5th Jan and talk to the faculty there!

Yeah, it's tough for people doing medicine.
And haha, yeah, I should talk to them. But I can't say "is this course better than UNSW's?" when I said all the good things about Usyd in my interview lol. I'll prob find other ways of asking it.


Btw, if you are turning scientia down, are you going to go to Usyd? or somewhere else?

 

[ajdlinux]

Wow you just opened my eyes to that..I was using it as an example of how you can do well without maths/sci, but yeah you are totally right I guess it also shows scaling at work, those ranks in maths/sci would have definitely yielded a 99.95.

The other units were also humanities, I'm not exactly sure how she went but I imagine very well, she is an exceptionally good humanities student.

There are always exceptional cases like this one where the system won't give the best result. It still doesn't change the fact that for people who do average/moderately well in humanities, the scaling system is quite fair.

 

[wendybird]

Btw, if you are turning scientia down, are you going to go to Usyd? or somewhere else?

USyd, and potentially overseas.

But USyd for at least the 1st semester of next year anyhow.

Got a call from the Law faculty already so essentially the offer is in the bag. (whew)

 

[study-freak]

USyd, and potentially overseas.

But USyd for at least the 1st semester of next year anyhow.

Got a call from the Law faculty already so essentially the offer is in the bag. (whew)

Hmm, I see. Law with 10k p.a. scholarship sounds nice. LOL, if you are going overseas, be sure that you get the 10k before going!

 

[study-freak]

Ahh that's a bitch lol. I'm going to go for the ramus scholarship myself, hopefully I will get it since I didn't apply for any other scholarships due to thinking I was having a gap year (this was a rather poor error on my behalf).

+99999999 ... infinity

Ah well, you at least applied for one. I hope you get it.

 

[William kamel]

Yeah, it's tough for people doing medicine.
And haha, yeah, I should talk to them. But I can't say "is this course better than UNSW's?" when I said all the good things about Usyd in my interview lol. I'll prob find other ways of asking it.


Btw, if you are turning scientia down, are you going to go to Usyd? or somewhere else?

Wow full marks with ESL?, how does ESL scale?

 

[study-freak]

Wow full marks with ESL?, how does ESL scale?

lol, it scales well for band 6 but anyway
I didn't get full marks, but I got in the top 0.05% of our Year 7 cohorts.

 

[kateemily]

its ridiculous when ppl blame their poor atar on their skool ranking and crap scaling subjects. like someone else said ages before this, you choose subjects you are good at so you are above the average and WONT be scaled down. thats the whole idea. i went to a skool that was in the 400's from memory and did some of the crappest subjects. i had plenty of people tell me i was doomed, but i worked hard and made sure i was above everyone else in my "easy" subjects and that rewarded me.

to be honest i couldve done some other courses, or "smarter" ones aka chem and got average marks with average effort and churned out a hsc result and effect on my uai that wouldve likened the mark i got in textiles which i worked freakin hard for. im not dumb, so i couldve done more sciences, but to do it for 2 years? no way. some of the most successful hsc students are ones who are able to stick their head in a boring book and learn what they have to despite hating the subject.

my 2 cents complete

 

[possessionless]

its ridiculous when ppl blame their poor atar on their skool ranking and crap scaling subjects. like someone else said ages before this, you choose subjects you are good at so you are above the average and WONT be scaled down. thats the whole idea. i went to a skool that was in the 400's from memory and did some of the crappest subjects. i had plenty of people tell me i was doomed, but i worked hard and made sure i was above everyone else in my "easy" subjects and that rewarded me.

to be honest i couldve done some other courses, or "smarter" ones aka chem and got average marks with average effort and churned out a hsc result and effect on my uai that wouldve likened the mark i got in textiles which i worked freakin hard for. im not dumb, so i couldve done more sciences, but to do it for 2 years? no way. some of the most successful hsc students are ones who are able to stick their head in a boring book and learn what they have to despite hating the subject.

my 2 cents complete

+ 1
i got told the same thing too about my "easy" subjects.

 

[alex09hsc]

HSC isn't unfair, school is unfair.

 

[philphie]

HSC isn't unfair, school is unfair.

no life is unfair

 

[alex09hsc]

No life is good because HSC was successful and school is over

 

[noelknows]

um i think its a bit unfair.. because it also depends on the kind of school u go to

example.. i go to a crap public school and got 3 band 5's n 2 band 4's and got 71.1

my work friends brother goes to a good private school and got 1 band 5 and 4 band 4's.. he got 73

and we did 4/5 subjects the same

another example

a girl at my school got 82 and got 2 band 6's, 2 band 5's

my boyfriend goes to a private school and got 1 band 6, 2 band 5's and 2 band 4's and got 83

and they both did similar subjects

It's got nothing to do with the public-private dichotomy, if that's what you're insinuating. Your marks do get scaled up if the rest of your cohort performs well, which may have some correlation to the higher performance of private schools.

I don't think you can use those comparisons accurately to prove your point. Let's take the example of 'the girl at your school vs. your boyfriend'. The slight differences in their subjects, albeit being similar, would have a bearing on that 1% ATAR difference. What if your boyfriend did ext 2 maths and she did ext 1? Moreover, you keep mentioning so and so got this many band 5s/6s, as did so and so, therefore shouldn't they have the same ATAR. Let's use the boyfriend example again, but before that let's establish what, say, a 'band 5' means. A band 5 is 80-89%. Now, what if your boyfriend was getting 88% band fives, and the girl at your school was getting 82% band fives. Naturally your boyfriend would receive the higher ATAR.

If your entire case is based on these two examples, then it is very tenuous indeed. You cannot compare things as general as "similar subjects", or "band 5s", in order to demonstrate that a 1%(girl vs boyfriend), or 1.9%(you vs work friends brother) ATAR difference has anything to do with what school you go to, let alone it being a public or private institution.

At the end of the day, the better you do as an individual, the less you need worry about scaling or how the rest of your cohort does.

 

[noelknows]

this thread has lost its vigour

That's because I left, philphie.

 

[annabackwards]

Well yeah to a degree it sort of would, not just in scaling, but you can't seriously tell me the same student would achieve the same results over 2 years in a very low ranked school vs. a top gov't selective...
Similar arguement behind why they have rural disadvantage bonus points at some uni's...unless your parents can afford to send you away to boarding school the likelihood is that you would have to go to a poor performing (both students and teachers) school closer to you.

Yeah they would. I didn't go to a top selective school yet i still beat lots of kids in selective schools. But according to you that cannot happen.
IE. Seeing as it's true for me, you're statement is incorrect.

And why would the kid get the same results? Because if they'd get a higher rank in the lower ranked school to counteract the fact that they go to a crap school. For eg if i went to a school ranked 600th and i was smart i'd come 1st in my subjects i'd end up with 90/100 results which i deserve. If i went to a selective school i'd get a lower mark, but would get 90/100 anyway. This is because your internal marks are moderated based on the strength of your cohort - this is heavily reliant on your internal ranks.

Of course there are other factors like learning environment etc etc that would affect results but i'm ignoring those in the example above.

Not bothered typing anything more detailed - all you complainers should learn how the system works before you complain/propose your own system.