Why doesn't BOS release raw marks? (2 Viewers)

[lyounamu]

Lol maybe but if you give it to them they probably won't understand anyway

well, i think bos seriously needs to do some homework in regards to teaching people about all this.

 

[dp624]

Yeah, so I wonder what Lazarus thinks on all this... hopefully yes =D

 

[shakky15]

well, i think bos seriously needs to do some homework in regards to teaching people about all this.

i dont think bos really cares tbh

wat about the scripts themselves?? i called and asked if i could get mine back today, and the lady gave me a flat 'unfortunately, no.'

i thought we could at least get the scripts back as they dont have marks on em?

 

[lyounamu]

i dont think bos really cares tbh

wat about the scripts themselves?? i called and asked if i could get mine back today, and the lady gave me a flat 'unfortunately, no.'

i thought we could at least get the scripts back as they dont have marks on em?

that's the bos' problem. its infrastructure in regards to that issue is very poor. As a student, we have a right to the information that we desire given that it's within bos' power.

It just seems to me BOS is waiting upon a call from some massive group to challenge it. So why not?

 

[dp624]

wat about the scripts themselves?? i called and asked if i could get mine back today, and the lady gave me a flat 'unfortunately, no.'

i think you actually have to use the FOI request online?

 

[Lazarus]

So someone with a large amount of time and money might be able to do this? It would be monumental in allowing for the accuracy of predictions and knowledge.

Yes, it is possible. And yes, it would be monumental, if only because the Board has stoically resisted it for eight consecutive years now.

Do you think that, personally, the Board would win such a case? Lol, we should have Bored of Studies vs Board of Studies, 2009

I think it depends on the way in which the case is presented and the particular tribunal member who is hearing it.

I am definitely of the opinion that a very strong case could be mounted.

Why not do that? That's a very good suggestion.

I mean, we can chip in some money and do some case going.

Yeah let's hire Lazarus as our lawyer

Unfortunately it's not that easy.

While I have been admitted as a lawyer, I can't practise law for a fee until July (when I return to my firm and they pay for my practising certificate), and even then I can't represent people in court unless they're clients of the firm.

Tribunals are different though, and pretty much anyone can appear before them.

So while I can run a case before the tribunal, I can't accept any money.

But I am being serious. We need to know. I mean, specifically, I really want to know the Truth.

I am being thrown all these figures by teachers who don't know a thing about HSC. And I am frustrated with most people at my school who go like: I cannot get 90 UAI because I need to get 90 in all my subjects OR maths is scaled up (without really knowing what scaling means).

Or they also go like 50% in 4 unit maths gets you 90 because it's scaled up. Hell no!

It is extremely frustrating, I agree.

Even with all of our efforts - with SAM, with the forums, with constant explanations being posted - we still get the same questions year after year.

Having said that, I have noticed a general improvement in the level of understanding, at least with respect to forum members. It is apparent that there are some people out there who are reading the stickied threads and the past explanations. We have more people helping out by answering scaling questions now (and more importantly by answering them correctly) than we've ever had before - people like you guys.

There are plenty of teachers who don't have any idea as well. Not all of them, certainly, there are pockets who know what's going on - particularly at schools like JRAHS and the others near the top of the usual (and questionable) league tables. But at your ordinary small to medium school there seems to be only one teacher who even looks at the scaling reports and even then they don't always have the full picture.

Disclosing raw marks won't automatically fix this. But allowing students to see how their marks are changed coupled with an honest explanation as to how that change occurs can only result in enlightenment.

I have often thought that the Board could have saved both themselves and everyone else a lot of time and money by investing in a system which discloses the marks in a way that is satisfactory to them - with comprehensive explanations which focus on increasing students' understanding etc - rather than taking the easy approach and fighting to keep it all secret.

Yeah, so I wonder what Lazarus thinks on all this... hopefully yes =D

I am going to create a new forum and invite you to discuss a few issues in it.

If anyone else is interested - and by interested I mean passionate about the idea and very much in favour of helping out - send me a PM and I'll invite you too.

i dont think bos really cares tbh

wat about the scripts themselves?? i called and asked if i could get mine back today, and the lady gave me a flat 'unfortunately, no.'

i thought we could at least get the scripts back as they dont have marks on em?

Unfortunately with technical queries you can't always rely on a generalist officer to give you the correct answer.

If you called back and spoke to someone else there's a real chance you could receive a different response.

I remember phoning the Board back in 2003 before I originally applied for my raw marks to see whether there were any existing procedures for obtaining them. The response was - "Oh, no, we can't give you those.. it's against the Education Act". But there was and is no prohibition on the disclosure of a student's marks to that student. Just a deeply embedded culture of secrecy and non-disclosure - to the extent that people seem to have forgotten why things were being kept secret in the first place.

To answer your question - despite what they said, if you submit the FOI application, you should get your scripts. You could also try calling the FOI Coordinator directly - there's a number on the Board's website (scroll down).

It just seems to me BOS is waiting upon a call from some massive group to challenge it. So why not?

This sort of attempt was made in 2006. A fellow named Hugh Parsonage put out a call for anyone who wanted their raw HSC marks. Fifty students signed up and contributed money (between $5 and $15) to fund the application fees and an appeal to the tribunal etc.

Unfortunately it ended up failing on a very technical point that had nothing to do with whether the marks should be released. So it all fell in a heap. Hugh referred the matter to the NSW Ombudsman and his local MP and in April 2008 the Ombudsman announced that he would be conducting a full-scale review of all FOI applications received by the Board since 2001 and how it had handled them. That report is pending. (You can see the tribunal decision here).

Of course, that doesn't prevent another group from trying again.

 

[Sarah182]

LOL

But I am being serious. We need to know. I mean, specifically, I really want to know the Truth.

I am being thrown all these figures by teachers who don't know a thing about HSC. And I am frustrated with most people at my school who go like: I cannot get 90 UAI because I need to get 90 in all my subjects OR maths is scaled up (without really knowing what scaling means).

Or they also go like 50% in 4 unit maths gets you 90 because it's scaled up. Hell no!

That is true, some people recieve their HSC marks and are so excited because they get in the 70s then they get a UAI of 50 and wonder what happened.

I think they should give us our raw marks and it should be UAC's job to moderate and scale and do whatever else happens to our marks so that it is still fair when we get our UAI.

 

[kevinx2]

than we've ever had before - people like you guys.

Doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside?

 

[Sarah182]

Haha, it would actually be quite interesting to delve further into this but it is an awful lot of effort just for a few numbers.

 

[youngminii]

Haha, it would actually be quite interesting to delve further into this but it is an awful lot of effort just for a few numbers.

I just find it ridiculous that they hide something so.. Trivial from us.
I mean, it's the mark WE get for our exams. US. We do the work and they hide it from us. I can't stand the thought of that idea.

 

[shakky15]

Haha, it would actually be quite interesting to delve further into this but it is an awful lot of effort just for a few numbers.

oh but its so much more than that lol. its pride. its time to uproot the secrecy pervading the bos.

 

[Sarah182]

its time to uproot the secrecy pervading the bos.

That sounds very inspirational haha.
But honestly it would be rather interesting for students to compare their raw marks to their moderated marks. In the past, from the very small minority of people who have received their raw marks, the gap between then has been massive and of course higher marks makes BoS look better right?

 

[Timothy.Siu]

i wud just want my raw mark to see how i actually went in the exam...to see if my estimate is the around the same

 

[lyounamu]

oh but its so much more than that lol. its pride. its time to uproot the secrecy pervading the bos.

Yes, yes, yes.

It's much more than that. It's about finding about the truth behind the "mysterious" marking/disclosure of HSC results system that the Board of Studies adopts. This will not only benefit the student who applied for the raw marks. It will help other members getting the right picture of the aligning procedure that occurs. Many people around the website are still quite misinformed about the alinging procedure even though they prove to be more knowledgeable than most of other students around the state.

In addition, having a good knowledge of the aligning procedure can be used for your own advantage as you can establish the strategy that you can use to form your study plan.

Look at how much difference members (namely James, David, Steph and others) around here made by getting their raw marks and disclosing them on to the website. Their contribution is absolutely phenomenal and helped us to get the good picture of the aligning procedure. Some people even got their exam scripts back and marked their own (e.g. Andrew Harvey did one). And that made a lot of contributions too by keeping people informed.

It's quite hurting to see that most of the people around the state (even the teachers) are not quite aware of the aligning procedure. Doing this will open their eyes and allow them an opportunity to take advantage of this.

If you are really passionate about finding about the truth behind the system and helping others to understand about the system for their own benefits, I suggest you try to become more aware of the issues in regards to this and try to get involved when necessary.

 

[Sarah182]

I think the biggest benefit of recieving raw marks is that we would be able to compare past HSC and raw marks to past HSC papers. In doing that I would be much more aware of what sort of raw marks I need to be scoring to get my aim UAI, both in exams and in assessment task, it would be extremely useful.

Instead I'm left in the dark and I'll have no clue about what sort of UAI i will be looking at until I recieve my HSC marks, and by then it would be too late to change anything.

 

[shakky15]

i just want to know what i REALLY got - ie so that i could compare it to my internal assessments/trials etc.

and i want to 'stick it to the man' (the bos).., hahah school of rock quote there how sad.

 

[abc123doremi]

they don't release raw marks because then people can tell how badly they set the exams
for example, someone getting 95 in 4u maths got a raw mark of 20
then it shows how effing hard they set the test -- and it gives them a bad image
they don't want people to think they're **** ***** **** you know
i mean, if i were them, i wouldn't either
but seriously, that's one of the reasons

 

[shaon0]

Hey, wtf. Our parents pay the salaries of the BOS' employees.
We should get our Raw Marks.

BOS only inflate our Raw Marks to show off to other countries and organisations like the UN. The inflated Scaled Marks show how "good" our education system is in comparison to other countries.