Your rights at uni rally (2 Viewers)

[Mongke]

The IR laws allow you more flexible employment.

you mean if i was an employer i assume.

Petrol prices are a result of supply and demand. Seeing as petrol prices aren't going down maybe you could get the rest of the Left to abandon the ridiculous 'war for oil' crap.

the whole of the "lefts" gripe is that the main objective of the war was to secure a monopoly on the oil in the Middle East. thats so bloody obvious tho. do you really think the point of the war was to LOWER the price of petrol?

Clearly you haven't chosen anything yet seeing as you wouldn't have voted at the last election.

ill be voting Labor, but with my fingers crossed.

 

[withoutaface]

i DID NOT choose to have my bonuses cut on weekends

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Funniest post of the year.


You signed a contract, dipshit, thereby consenting to it.

EDIT: To properly deconstruct your post:

where are the priorities of the government? i choose to pay my union fees

That's nice, a lot of other people didn't.

but i DID NOT choose to go to war in iraq,

I never said we should have invaded Iraq, but that's another issue for another time.

i DID NOT choose to have my bonuses cut on weekends,

Yes you did, you signed a contract.

i DID NOT choose to introduce the IR laws

1. The nation chose a Liberal senate majority, hence the IR laws.
2. IR laws offer greater choice and flexibility for the community as a whole.

and i DO NOT choose to deal with refugees in the way the government does.

I agree with you, but again, another issue for another time.

that was FORCED on me.

By this point I start to get interested in whether you actually pay tax.

if the government is going to force something on the people make it bennefit the people, not the fat cats.

Capitalism may create greater inequality, but it increases freedom and also the standard of living of the populous as a whole. As much as you might hate corporate profit, it acts as an incentive to innovate, hence making goods cheaper, hence meaning you get a better standard of living.

thats the purpose of capitalism, GAIN.

No, that's a byproduct of capitalism.

our unions bennefit us,

By:
a) increasing unemployment by pricing people out of the market
b) encouraging continued overemployment in stagnant industries when employees would be better off elsewhere so as to increase overall productivity/standard of living
c) wasting millions on scare campaigns
d) making it easier for employers to discriminate against minorities
and many other issues I really don't have time for

how do the new IR laws bennefit me?

By giving you greater freedom to negotiate.

or the war in iraq?

Irrelevant.

do you see petrol prices going down?

What does that have to do with the price of ill-tempered sea bass in Turkmenistan?

if you are really so shallow that you are only concerned with your dollar then you DESERVE to have John Howard as your Prime Minister.

Howard has his flaws, especially in social policy, but he's a damned sight better than the alternative.

im voting Labor, i hate Kim, but it is VERY important to get rid of Howard, that is a choice i am willing to make.

You do that, and watch the Australian economy as a whole go the same way the NSW one is right now.


Executive summary: Owned.

 

[Mongke]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Funniest post of the year.


You signed a contract, dipshit, thereby consenting to it.

i dont want to have to sign it shit head, thats the whole point. you like the IR laws?

 

[withoutaface]

If you don't want to sign it, then you know what you do?





DRUM ROLL






You refuse, and take your services elsewhere. Employers will have spent a fair amount of money training you, and they're unlikely to throw that all away, so they'll talk to you about it. Or talk to your mates at work, who also don't like having their bonus pay cut. Then talk to the employer as a group. This is what's called a genuine free market union, which allow collective bargaining without special legal status.

 

[Mongke]

If you don't want to sign it, then you know what you do?





DRUM ROLL






You refuse, and take your services elsewhere.

that’s not good enough im afraid. you REALLY support these laws?

Employers will have spent a fair amount of money training you, and they're unlikely to throw that all away, so they'll talk to you about it. Or talk to your mates at work, who also don't like having their bonus pay cut. Then talk to the employer as a group. This is what's called a genuine free market union, which allow collective bargaining without special legal status.

the more free the market is the less bargaining power employees have. if employers can sack this easily then it will reduce the minimum pay and it will favour people with no external commitments. you will have to be available when and where the employer wants you. your primary commitment will be to your job, not your family. “take it or leave it buddy.” i don’t want that option. remember the Baby Boomers? they worked very hard for their employers for not much pay and remained loyal to the company even when the company didn’t reciprocate. i don’t seem to have the faith in the good nature of corporations as you seem to.

 

[withoutaface]

that’s not good enough im afraid. you REALLY support these laws?

No, I don't. I think they're unconstitutional and left wing.

the more free the market is the less bargaining power employees have. if employers can sack this easily then it will reduce the minimum pay

If it reduces the minimum pay then noone will want to work there because they can work elsewhere for more pay for the same amount of work.

and it will favour people with no external commitments.

No, if what you described above occurs they'll have to take underqualified people with many commitments.

you will have to be available when and where the employer wants you.

You should be able to receive a higher rate of pay for being available all the time, and a slightly lower one if you're not. That's common sense.

your primary commitment will be to your job, not your family.

Only if you choose for it to be.

“take it or leave it buddy.” i don’t want that option. remember the Baby Boomers? they worked very hard for their employers for not much pay and remained loyal to the company even when the company didn’t reciprocate. i don’t seem to have the faith in the good nature of corporations as you seem to.

You mean the baby boomers who held corporations to ransom through unions and fucked with productivity, causing a decline in the general standard of living for everyone?

 

[Mongke]

my God, i dissagree with you on just about every point.

ill just say that its clear we are so diametrically opposed ill cut a long story short and say we'll agree to dissagree.

other than that, i will point out that you are greatly assuming that the other company that hires you will be more lenient with your contract. there are more employees than employers out there, therefore making it easy for employees to demand unreasonably. a "im too good for you" attitude to your employers will have you in the gutter with a ballot paper in your hand. perhaps you had better rethink this, its to the right wing what ultra social policies are to the left, neither of which are practical. the old system made it WAY to hard to fire people, WAY to hard. i can see that. but the answer is not to swing to the right again. that will just make it swing back to the left and so on... what we need is a concervative moderate Liberal party. im not concervative but i think its better to break into things slowly, not with the hammer of these laws.

edit: dont edit, just post it again

 

[bshoc]

How about a system where people buy shares in your education, and they get 3% dividends from your income for an x year period?

See thats the problem with all you free market people, you take something simple and turn it into useless complications like your suggestion above, When you're at uni a student's number one priority should be EDUACTION, not FINANCES, finances is something one should have to worry about AFTER education. There's nothing simpler and more efficient then the government footing the bill - HECS, shares are complex, inefficient and a overall, too much menu costs.

Compared to the rest of Africa, and how it was 15 years ago, yes it is:
- Less people living on <$1 a day than richer western Africa and neighbouring nations.
- Among the best telecommunications in Africa.
- Smaller gap between rich and poor.

Alon with the whole warlodism, anarchy, and 20% of the population having access to safe drinking water. And no it doesent matter if Somalia has 3 satalite dishes instead of 2.

If the extra 2 years is useless to future employment prospects then your benefit to society argument goes down the toilet.

Except that the uni would only be concerned with initial employment prospects.

And libertarians like to give social freedom too. A combination of much too rapid implementation and lack of social freedom doomed the Chile experiment to failure. And your lack of growth article is BS, because they had one of the fastest growing GDP's in South America.

Nah mate check for yourself, the IMF doesent lie http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2005/02/data/dbcdatm.cfm

And it doesent matter how fast or slow one implements libertarianism, or for that matter how much social freedoms are granted to the populace - the only one you need in this case really is the freedom to buy. A failed system will always be a failed system.


On a side note to all the free market, private school attending, pro vsu IR, payed through life and uni by parents retards - we understand that your life has been easy and that bitching about unions, paying tax, supporting welfare etc. is a byproduct of something you could never grasp - hardship and poverty - and ignorance of another thing you have little idea about - economics - so please dont act like anything you say is done for the benefit of others, becuase the difference is between whether you get your extra $20 at the end of the week and whether some kid from a poor family gets to go to school or proper hospital care isnt an economic one, its a moral line, something a few of us understand from experience.

 

[SSaint]

On a side note to all the free market, private school attending, pro vsu IR, payed through life and uni by parents retards - we understand that your life has been easy and that bitching about unions, paying tax, supporting welfare etc. is a byproduct of something you could never grasp - hardship and poverty - and ignorance of another thing you have little idea about - economics - so please dont act like anything you say is done for the benefit of others, becuase the difference is between whether you get your extra $20 at the end of the week and whether some kid from a poor family gets to go to school or proper hospital care isnt an economic one, its a moral line, something a few of us understand from experience.

agreed

And no it doesent matter if Somalia has 3 satalite dishes instead of 2.

lol

 

[Mongke]

On a side note to all the free market, private school attending, pro vsu IR, payed through life and uni by parents retards - we understand that your life has been easy and that bitching about unions, paying tax, supporting welfare etc. is a byproduct of something you could never grasp - hardship and poverty - and ignorance of another thing you have little idea about - economics - so please dont act like anything you say is done for the benefit of others, becuase the difference is between whether you get your extra $20 at the end of the week and whether some kid from a poor family gets to go to school or proper hospital care isnt an economic one, its a moral line, something a few of us understand from experience.

add a good dose of propaganda from the Liberal Party and im with you there.

 

[Silver And Cold]

On a side note to all the free market, private school attending, pro vsu IR, payed through life and uni by parents retards - we understand that your life has been easy and that bitching about unions, paying tax, supporting welfare etc. is a byproduct of something you could never grasp - hardship and poverty - and ignorance of another thing you have little idea about - economics - so please dont act like anything you say is done for the benefit of others, becuase the difference is between whether you get your extra $20 at the end of the week and whether some kid from a poor family gets to go to school or proper hospital care isnt an economic one, its a moral line, something a few of us understand from experience.

Thank you for saying what I couldn't

 

[withoutaface]

Alon with the whole warlodism, anarchy, and 20% of the population having access to safe drinking water. And no it doesent matter if Somalia has 3 satalite dishes instead of 2.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Somalia is a giant fucking strawman, because it's anarchocapitalistic, a point of view rejected by myself and any other minarchists, because it's unworkable and too utopian.

Except that the uni would only be concerned with initial employment prospects.

How so?

Nah mate check for yourself, the IMF doesent lie http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2005/02/data/dbcdatm.cfm

And it doesent matter how fast or slow one implements libertarianism, or for that matter how much social freedoms are granted to the populace - the only one you need in this case really is the freedom to buy. A failed system will always be a failed system.

I can see that they don't:

Error Occurred While Processing Request

Error Diagnostic Information

An error occurred while evaluating the expression:

"dbcselm.cfm?G=#G#&Error=1"

Error near line 2, column 19.

Error resolving parameter G

ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either:

1. You have misspelled the parameter name, or
2. You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag.

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFLOCATION), occupying document position (2:2) to (2:45).

Date/Time: 04/17/06 12:18:50
Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.2) Gecko/20060308 Firefox/1.5.0.2
Remote Address: 204.180.229.203
HTTP Referrer: http://community.boredofstudies.org:80/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2320266

Please inform the site administrator that this error has occurred (be sure to include the contents of this page in your message to the administrator).

On a side note to all the free market, private school attending, pro vsu IR, payed through life and uni by parents retards

Thanks for that mate, but you don't know me. Let's analyse my family's financial situation shall we?
- 1 car, 1992 Daihatsu Charade, conks out all the time, always needing repairs.
- No washing machine, dishwasher, dryer or freezer, and only fridge is a bar fridge purchased at the end of last year.
etc

- we understand that your life has been easy and that bitching about unions, paying tax, supporting welfare etc. is a byproduct of something you could never grasp - hardship and poverty

I daresay I grasp these concepts better than you do.

- and ignorance of another thing you have little idea about - economics - so please dont act like anything you say is done for the benefit of others, becuase the difference is between whether you get your extra $20 at the end of the week and whether some kid from a poor family gets to go to school or proper hospital care isnt an economic one, its a moral line, something a few of us understand from experience.

Executive summary: go fuck yourself you bottom dwelling pus sucking vile snot eating self important stereotyping sack of shit, because you've just launched a barrage of completely unfounded personal attacks in order to discredit an opponent who probably knows more about the harsh realities of life than you do.

 

[lealea1511]

unions are ment to be voluntary. but the union at uni isnt. hence vsu.

 

[poloktim]

You're all mongs.

I read in there a few mentions of the phrase 'second-rate job.' What the fuck are you on about? We can't all be doctors or legal workers (thank God). Maybe you should all shut the fuck up about second rate jobs and grow some sense to realise that some people work to live, and not live to work.

Mongs.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

the 'union' doesnt have any political stance. it provides all of the activities, parties, clubs, food, etc. its not a union like SDA when you work at woolworths, in that sense

That's the only reason they're bringing in VSU, because Mr. Howard has a rabid hatred of anything with the name "Union".
If they'd called themselves the "Students Association" or something it'd never have happened.