Australian Politics (2 Viewers)

[JonathanM]

I don't imagine that we will see a balanced presentation.

Gerard Henderson

Never read this guys work before - he speaks of reason and logic, how rare for an SMH journalist. It's not like them to balanced, strange - espionage alert!

 

[Lentern]

Never read this guys work before - he speaks of reason and logic, how rare for an SMH journalist. It's not like them to balanced, strange - espionage alert!

Look everyone is welcome to hold their own views but please tell me, it'll help me sleep at night, you do realise how spectacularly one eyed you are right?

 

[JonathanM]

Look everyone is welcome to hold their own views but please tell me, it'll help me sleep at night, you do realise how spectacularly one eyed you are right?

For the emotional illiterate amongst us, that was a tongue in cheek post, although there was, as is the case with most of my posts, a grain of truth in it. I'm not really that right wing, more I just can't stand the left wing side of the political spectrum, so nonsensical (imo) >_<

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

For the emotional illiterate amongst us, that was a tongue in cheek post, although there was, as is the case with most of my posts, a grain of truth in it. I'm not really that right wing, more I just can't stand the left wing side of the political spectrum, so nonsensical (imo) >_<

Um, but the SMH isn't left-wing. If anything it's marginally right-wing. Can't you stand centrists either?

 

[JonathanM]

Um, but the SMH isn't left-wing. If anything it's marginally right-wing. Can't you stand centrists either?

I would definitely disagree with that statement.

The Australian? That's right wing. SMH? That's hippy fodder.

 

[incentivation]

Um, but the SMH isn't left-wing. If anything it's marginally right-wing. Can't you stand centrists either?

Do you read the same paper?

It might appear right wing when compared to 'Green Left, however it is still a strong mouthpiece for the ALP.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Do you read the same paper?

It might appear right wing when compared to 'Green Left, however it is still a strong mouthpiece for the ALP.

Um, no it's not you silly social conservative.

Something like The Age is left-wing.

The Green Left is a load of socialist tosh and is extreme left.

If you can't tell the fucking difference then I wouldn't be surprised to find out your favourite paper is the Daily Telegraph.

News flash to both of you: just because something isn't conspicuously and consistently right-wing doesn't make it left-wing.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Um, no it's not you silly social conservative.

Something like The Age is left-wing.

The Green Left is a load of socialist tosh and is extreme left.

If you can't tell the fucking difference then I wouldn't be surprised to find out your favourite paper is the Daily Telegraph.

News flash to both of you: just because something isn't conspicuously and consistently right-wing doesn't make it left-wing.

Don't joke about the DT.

It's quality journalism at its best.

 

[Lentern]

Um, but the SMH isn't left-wing. If anything it's marginally right-wing. Can't you stand centrists either?

I'd say whilst the journalism itself is relatively balanced. Marr, Switzer, Sheehan, Henderson-they all get their chance to have a say. But in Sydney it would attract an overwhelmingly progressive audience.

I'll add that these days members of the right will be convinced that all but the most conservative media outlets are sociallists and most lefties will be convinced that any inclination to the conservative side of politics means the media outlet is fascist.

 

[JonathanM]

I'd say whilst the journalism itself is relatively balanced. Marr, Switzer, Sheehan, Henderson-they all get their chance to have a say. But in Sydney it would attract an overwhelmingly progressive audience.

I'll add that these days members of the right will be convinced that all but the most conservative media outlets are sociallists and most lefties will be convinced that any inclination to the conservative side of politics means the media outlet is fascist.

I don't agree with this. I think that what the 'left' write is now considered as more socially acceptable than what the 'right' write. There is such a huge amount of political intimidation going on in this country, it's not funny and the worst part is - most Australians aren't even aware of it.

There's an easy way for you to test it though. Go wear a Labor or Greens Party sticker in public and see if you're confronted at all. Then go and wear a Liberal or Nationals sticker and I promise you, for me at least, every single time I do this, and I have for the lulz, I am confronted and intimidated by people. Last election a friend of my mother was running for the Liberal party in the local government elections and asked her to hand out flyers at the voting place - she came back saying she'd "never do it again" after the looks she'd gotten from so many people.

Want more evidence? The fact that a series like 'Liberal Rule' is allowed to go to air under the guise of being a 'balanced documentary,' and yet it is let off relatively unscathed by the Australian media (can anyone find any other criticism of it apart from that SMH article?).

 

[Lentern]

I don't agree with this. I think that what the 'left' write is now considered as more socially acceptable than what the 'right' write. There is such a huge amount of political intimidation going on in this country, it's not funny and the worst part is - most Australians aren't even aware of it.

There's an easy way for you to test it though. Go wear a Labor or Greens Party sticker in public and see if you're confronted at all. Then go and wear a Liberal or Nationals sticker and I promise you, for me at least, every single time I do this, and I have for the lulz, I am confronted and intimidated by people. Last election a friend of my mother was running for the Liberal party in the local government elections and asked her to hand out flyers at the voting place - she came back saying she'd "never do it again" after the looks she'd gotten from so many people.

Want more evidence? The fact that a series like 'Liberal Rule' is allowed to go to air under the guise of being a 'balanced documentary,' and yet it is let off relatively unscathed by the Australian media (can anyone find any other criticism of it apart from that SMH article?).

The way you (and Gerrard, Bolt, Switzer) respond to liberal rule is exactly my point. It strayed to the left granted but its scepticism of Howard is greatly overshadowed by the "conviction politician, takes the tough decisions, would give his life for his country, did enormous wonders for our economy etc etc" narrative told in the Howard years which aside from one disgruntled ANU researcher attracted very little criticism as well.

Your story about your mother is unfortunate, wrong and dissapointing but is not a reflection on the press but the audience which I think my original point about the herald. Balanced journalism but militant loonies reading it.

 

[JonathanM]

The way you (and Gerrard, Bolt, Switzer) respond to liberal rule is exactly my point. It strayed to the left granted but its scepticism of Howard is greatly overshadowed by the "conviction politician, takes the tough decisions, would give his life for his country, did enormous wonders for our economy etc etc" narrative told in the Howard years which aside from one disgruntled ANU researcher attracted very little criticism as well.

It didn't just stray to the left, it took a long jump in the left direction, stamped around a bit and then took a nice phlegmy spit onto the right side.

'Liberal Rule' invited bunch of nutters like Norman Abjorensen, Judith Brett, Mark Davis, Andrew Jakubowicz and James Walter to come on and each have their own rant against Howard, without allowing anyone from the other side a decent chance at a response. Even the narrator is clearly critical of Howard.

If you genuinely regard 'Liberal Rule' as being the centre-left of politics and the 'Howard Years' as being the centre-right I can tell you with absolute assurance that you are completely wrong. 'Liberal Rule' was left wing, 'Howard Years' was centre, even centre-left. It featured views from all sides and unlike 'Liberal Rule,' it made a point of being impartial through constantly criticising Howard.

 

[incentivation]

Um, no it's not you silly social conservative.

Something like The Age is left-wing.

The Green Left is a load of socialist tosh and is extreme left.

If you can't tell the fucking difference then I wouldn't be surprised to find out your favourite paper is the Daily Telegraph.

News flash to both of you: just because something isn't conspicuously and consistently right-wing doesn't make it left-wing.

I said ALP mouthpiece, not necessarily left wing. I certainly wouldn't consider it right wing though; centre, maybe centre left.

I actually read the SMH and Australian. Achieve a little balance that way.

 

[JonathanM]

The way you (and Gerrard, Bolt, Switzer) respond to liberal rule is exactly my point. It strayed to the left granted but its scepticism of Howard is greatly overshadowed by the "conviction politician, takes the tough decisions, would give his life for his country, did enormous wonders for our economy etc etc" narrative told in the Howard years which aside from one disgruntled ANU researcher attracted very little criticism as well.

Actually, no, disregard my last post, I'll take that description: the left (Liberal Rule) are nonsensical, unfounded and unfairly biased whilst the 'right' (Howard Years) are fair, relatively impartial and accepting of criticism

 

[Lentern]

Actually, no, disregard my last post, I'll take that description: the left (Liberal Rule) are nonsensical, unfounded and unfairly biased whilst the 'right' (Howard Years) are fair, relatively impartial and accepting of criticism

Impartial? You're going bonkers. Who was the other side in the Howard years, from memory the strongest critic of Howard in the whole series was a liberal backbencher. Most of the air time went to messers Howard, Costello, Downer and Reith just rambling on about how wonderful they were.I recall no left wing voice whatsoever unless you count Kelly herself.

In Liberal rule we see an imbalance, more left wing voices than not. The right is still represented: Liberal mp's, Conservative journalists, government staffers etc. In the Howard years there was no such voice from the left. Nearly an entire episode focussed on immigration laws, whatever his politics I can tell you David Marr knows more about what happened with the MV Tampa than any member of parliament does but his views were never going to be welcome on the Howard years, the ABC would have been accused of bias.

This paranoia that exists about the media being bias is compromising the quality of journalism we get.

 

[JonathanM]

In Liberal rule we see an imbalance, more left wing voices than not. The right is still represented: Liberal mp's, Conservative journalists, government staffers etc. In the Howard years there was no such voice from the left. Nearly an entire episode focussed on immigration laws, whatever his politics I can tell you David Marr knows more about what happened with the MV Tampa than any member of parliament does but his views were never going to be welcome on the Howard years, the ABC would have been accused of bias.

The Howard Years featured numerous interviews with those from the opposition and others who disagreed with his policies. It also featured those from the 'right' bluntly admitting their mistakes in some cases. I'm sorry, but you just compare the two at all in terms of being equal. I watched Liberal Rule again last night and the amount of air time they give to that nobody Abjorensen to spout his at times completely ridiculous Howard hatred was just ridiculous. The two cannot be compared at all. One was a documentary, one was as good or as bad as a piece of leftist propaganda.

 

[Lentern]

The Howard Years featured numerous interviews with those from the opposition and others who disagreed with his policies. It also featured those from the 'right' bluntly admitting their mistakes in some cases. I'm sorry, but you just compare the two at all in terms of being equal. I watched Liberal Rule again last night and the amount of air time they give to that nobody Abjorensen to spout his at times completely ridiculous Howard hatred was just ridiculous. The two cannot be compared at all. One was a documentary, one was as good or as bad as a piece of leftist propaganda.

Name one left wing voice in the Howard years? Just one, I remember the prime minister, several cabinet ministers, some back bench mp's-all liberal, some members of the public service, some advisors of Howard, Costello, Downer etc, some members of the armed forces, a Howard government pollster, A few foreign leaders, some state members of the liberal party, a couple of nats, some of the folk Reith had employed to settle the waterfront dispute, where were these left voices you spoke of?

You clearly are like Gerrard Henderson in that you have no threshold when it comes to accepting criticism. Liberals galore have gotten to have their say in liberal rule but god forbid someone who thinks little of Howard is aloud to have a say, thats just the left taking control. And for all your complaining you have yet to give a single example of the Howard government being missrepresented.

 

[spiny norman]

News flash to both of you: just because something isn't conspicuously and consistently right-wing doesn't make it left-wing.

eg. the Australian Labor Party.

Last election a friend of my mother was running for the Liberal party in the local government elections and asked her to hand out flyers at the voting place - she came back saying she'd "never do it again" after the looks she'd gotten from so many people.

Oh come on. I've campaigned for Labor at many elections, and can not even count the amount of abuse I've copped. I've been called a communist more times than I can count, unAustralian, scum, a liar, told I'd not been pissed on if I was on fire and so on and so forth.

At the 2007 election, I was handing out flyers at a train station. A 4WD came flying into the car park, screamed right up next to me (missing me by about a foot), the driver got out, stormed up to stand an inch from my face and began screaming at me about how I was a liar and a cheat and if he ever saw me handing out again there'd be trouble. In a strange bit of coincidence, John Robertson's wife happened to be catching the train that was due to arrive at the station, and she, along with several other commuters, shouted the guy down, so he got back in his vehicle and drove away.

It is awful that she got that kind of treatment, and sad that she doesn't feel she can ever participate in that way due to abuse she'd get, but I think you'd be EXTREMELY naive to think that that treatment is only felt by Liberals.

 

[Iron]

Name one left wing voice in the Howard years? .

From memory, The Howard Years featured no commentary at all. It was simply a look at his government from those involved. What was so good about it was the way the interviews were edited to look like they were all in conversation with eachother - contradicting some things, agreeing with others. I suppose editing is a kind of commentary, but you still draw your own conclusions without significant pressure

Liberal rule is just sloppy so far

 

[Tatecress14]

From memory, The Howard Years featured no commentary at all. It was simply a look at his government from those involved. What was so good about it was the way the interviews were edited to look like they were all in conversation with eachother - contradicting some things, agreeing with others. I suppose editing is a kind of commentary, but you still draw your own conclusions without significant pressure

Liberal rule is just sloppy so far

In which way is liberal rule sloppy?

I believe Rudd government is doing a fair better job then the howard;
By one means; workplace.gov.au - Fair Work Act 2009

And removal of the AWA - Australian Workplace Agreement.

A problem with a AWA instead of a union is that if an individual worker is not confident about their own personal skills and achievements that they would sit down instead of seeking out the employer and discussing a new wage for example.

In which way "unions" can assist in this person’s interest.

Luke.