not being allowed to do 4u (1 Viewer)

[rawrawr]

can schools stop schools from doing 4u completely?
for next year, the school is only allowing the top 30 students to be in 4u? if we don't make it is that about it? i don't intend on moving schools.

 

[gurmies]

Not sure if they can do that...

 

[the-derivative]

Many schools do enforce this, but there are ways of getting around it, either by appealing the decision to the coordinator, principal or in dramatic cases, the Board of Studies. Like my school generally has an 'accelerated only' 4U policy, however they were flexible this year and they let this one guy in cause he really wanted to do it. Often schools will just backdown if you keep on bugging them, but if the school thinks you're not capable, they're probably correct and you'll probably come last anyway and if not, you'll have the satisfaction of proving your school wrong.

 

[ninetypercent]

yes. they can do that. Quite a few schools select students to get into 4 unit rather than letting students sign up freely.

I originally thought of changing schools if my school didn't let me into 4 unit, but suprisingly, instead of stopping me from getting in, they were recommending me to do it.

If you really really really want to do 4 unit as much as I wanted to, then change schools.

 

[Timothy.Siu]

lots of school do this, james ruse only lets like 70-80 even though many more REALLY want to do it.
same for sydney boys, only the top 120 get to do it even though there were about 140-150 people wanting to do it for my grade.

and it seems fair , 30 people is reasonable , because i'd assume only around half of them would be getting E4's so (unless the schools really good at maths, and if so, i wudn't see why they would only allow 30), if u dont make the top 30, then you wouldn't do too well....
and thats probably what they would tell you.

 

[astroe]

You can bitch and scream and cry, and they'll probably let you in.
I know from personal experience with dealing with the administration.
Your first person to visit should be the Head of Maths, then see what they say, then onto the Deputy, Year coordinator, or even Principal!
I got an interview to discuss the matter and got in! LOOOL.

But in the end, I never did the course because I changed my mind.

 

[Aquawhite]

Many schools do enforce this, but there are ways of getting around it, either by appealing the decision to the coordinator, principal or in dramatic cases, the Board of Studies. Like my school generally has an 'accelerated only' 4U policy, however they were flexible this year and they let this one guy in cause he really wanted to do it. Often schools will just backdown if you keep on bugging them, but if the school thinks you're not capable, they're probably correct and you'll probably come last anyway and if not, you'll have the satisfaction of proving your school wrong.

Very much this. +1

 

[cem]

There is also the factor of class size to be taken into account as this impacts on the teacher's working conditions.

What is the school's maximum class size for Senior courses? Extension 2 Maths requires a lot of work from the teacher as well as the students so the schools I know all have lower maximum sizes to ensure that they aren't overloading the teacher concerned.

To you it seems like one student wouldn't make that much difference but to the teacher the extra marking and preparation for that one student, particularly if they are at the bottom of the class, could be hours per week impacting their preparation for other classes, and even the other students within that class, along with their personal lives.

I would hate to have an Extension History class of more than 10 simply due to the marking involved.

That being said, if the school's class size for Extension 2 Maths is say 20 then there is no reason for not accepting you and the BOS would back that.

Remember that class size is spelt out in most schools' teachers salary awards and despite you seeing it as only one student teachers also have rights as well.

I am a teacher so I can see this from the teacher's point of view but I do understand where you are coming from.

Generally the BOS says that all students must be allowed to do any course they want within the restriction of award regulations for teachers at the school and that is where class size comes in.

I hope I am putting this across properly and want to encourage you to take all possible steps to do what you want but also to remember that there is another side of the argument.

 

[Iruka]

Like cem says, schools are not obliged to supply you with a class for absolutely every subject that you want. Obviously there are limits on the resources that they have available, too. They may have only enough teachers to staff one MX2 class and there are limitations on how many students are allowed in each class. However, I think if you really wanted to do it, you could probably use distance ed.

 

[the-derivative]

Like cem says, schools are not obliged to supply you with a class for absolutely every subject that you want. Obviously there are limits on the resources that they have available, too. They may have only enough teachers to staff one MX2 class and there are limitations on how many students are allowed in each class. However, I think if you really wanted to do it, you could probably use distance ed.

True, BUT, in this case, the school is running at least a class of the subject, so they are capable in offering you a position and although it's not reccomended, some schools (like my own for some subjects) exceed 30 students. Not advised but it can be done, unless the public system has some restriction.

Also, I wouldn't go doing distance ed. I'm assuming the school is a strong school, having 30 kids do Extension 2, so I'm sure if you don't make the cut, it's because you're probably not capable and from past experiences, the school would probably know what's best for you. (N.B to the OP, I'm not saying you're not capable, I'm just saying hypothetically)

 

[Iruka]

Yes, I don't think it would be a good idea either. (The distance ed thing, that is.)

However, classes can't be expanded indefinitely. The Teachers Federation is quite strict about this, so yeah, there is a restriction in public schools (I think the upper limit in senior high school is something like 25 students per class). I guess the question, then, is, given that a school can only run one class of MX2, on what basis are they allowed to ration places in that class? I would think that academic merit would be a fairly water-tight criteria. It would hardly be fair if a student with a lower mark was allowed to displace a student with a higher one simply because the first student whinged louder.

 

[spyborg]

Try asking a maths teacher and tell them you've alrdy independently started studying it.

 

[duckcowhybrid]

lots of school do this, james ruse only lets like 70-80 even though many more REALLY want to do it.
same for sydney boys, only the top 120 get to do it even though there were about 140-150 people wanting to do it for my grade.

and it seems fair , 30 people is reasonable , because i'd assume only around half of them would be getting E4's so (unless the schools really good at maths, and if so, i wudn't see why they would only allow 30), if u dont make the top 30, then you wouldn't do too well....
and thats probably what they would tell you.

Ruse allow 90, max threshold is 96 (24 per class)

 

[Top Secret]

Ruse allow 90, max threshold is 96 (24 per class)

So what?
Next time, try to actually contribute to the thread.

My view is that under most cases, 4U cannot be denied. Teachers can strongly advice you against it, but most of the time, you can argue your way in. That's what a friend of mine did. Though he did end up coming last, and then dropping it, lol. So sometimes, you really have to consider whether your up to it, and not doing it just cause you feel like it.

 

[rawrawr]

oh the schools hurlstone. we do pretty well in ext2 particularly.. i'm only a bit outside the top 30, so i'd have to try get a super yearly mark.. any study suggestions?

 

[babikakez]

oh the schools hurlstone. we do pretty well in ext2 particularly.. i'm only a bit outside the top 30, so i'd have to try get a super yearly mark.. any study suggestions?

If I were you, I would only focus on Maths then...unless there's other classes that you need a super awesome mark in.

 

[the-derivative]

oh the schools hurlstone. we do pretty well in ext2 particularly.. i'm only a bit outside the top 30, so i'd have to try get a super yearly mark.. any study suggestions?

Hurlstone's very strong with mathematics, a fair few go to my tutor. I would dedicate a lot of time in doing past prelim papers. Also, just curious (because I know a fair few people who go there) - does the top 30 include the accelerated class or is the 30 people based on the non-accelerated maths class?

 

[rawrawr]

its everyone accelerated kids included/

 

[ninetypercent]

I thought hurlstone had two classes of mx2. Guess I was wrong.

If you wanna pull a good mark, then study from past papers. Do as many as you can. Myself did 20 papers for 2u and 10 for 3u and I pulled up my rank from 10th to 2nd in a class of 25. (from 30th to 3rd place in the grade)
Doing past papers is like seeing the exam.

 

[duckcowhybrid]

Ok, my contribution. Nobody can stop you from doing a subject, they can jsut recommend that you don't do a subject that you may fail.