Why are atheists on this website always attacking Christianity? (2 Viewers)

[katie tully]

Anyway, as yet noone on this forum who thinks religion is wrong has justified why they take this point of view though.

Also, even if a religion is 'wrong' then that does not mean it should be targeted. I mean, if I believed the moon was made of cheese (not that I do, just an example), it would be my personal belief. How is it going to impact you? Is it going to make your head explode in a gory mess if I told you that I thought the moon was made of cheese?

I don't think anyone has said religion is wrong. I think you'll find the majority of us support religion in a certain context; i.e. that it's kept out of state affairs, that it's kept out of the public schools and that it's kept off my fricken front door step on a Saturday morning. But this doesn't and will never happen, not with Islam and not with Christianity because people are imbeciles with over inflated senses of self worth. Oh I am enlightened because I am a Christian and therefore I should impose my belief system on that person walking down the street. I'm a Christian and I don't believe in abortions, therefore nobody else in the community should have the right to choose otherwise, etc.

You asked how it's impacting us. Are you retarded? Take a look around you, are you honestly saying that religion has no part in our lives, whether we choose it to or not? I can try and ignore religion until my face goes blue, but people are still going to force it on me by;
- complaining about the tv shows I watch
- getting into parliament and forcing laws based on Christian ideals on me
- by accosting me in the street

If you believed the moon was made of cheese, good for you. If you told me you believed the moon was made of cheese, whatever. If you forced this belief onto me by demanding Cheese Moon worship holidays and other shit, then yes I care.

As long as I don't force these beliefs on you

That's the operative phrase, isn't it. But I've already concluded that you're a moron because you're obviously oblivious just how much religion is forced on people.

Finally, if you say God is not real with such conviction, prove it.

Admittedly I can't prove God, but with any lack of evidence asserting he doesn't exist, I'm likely to give the benefit of the doubt. I have nothing to lose if he doesn't exist, but if he does, well, I'm not taking the risk of going to Hell.

The onus isn't on us to prove God doesn't exist. The fact that there is no proof, by admission of Christians and every other moron, is "proof" enough that it doesn't exist. If it existed, there would be proof. It's a fairly basic law of common sense.

 

[Riet]

I can prove god doesn't exist very easily. The universe was created at the big bang, there cannot be a god because the laws of physics do not allow for one.

 

[katie tully]

The point is that you cannot disprove God and hence you cannot say that God definitely does not exist. That way you cannot assert that we are 'wrong' in believing in God. It's alright if you believe he doesn't exist, I'm fine with that. But there is no need in people attacking others because they do believe in God, as you can't really disprove him in the first place anyway.

It's fairly hard to disprove something that has no proof of existence to begin with.

See where we're going with this?

 

[katie tully]

I can prove god doesn't exist very easily. The universe was created at the big bang, there cannot be a god because the laws of physics do not allow for one.

But God willed the big bang to happen.

 

[mirakon]

@Riet

Ok, fine then, I accept that you attack Chrisitianity because sometimes it's values are forced upon you.

But firstly, not all its values are bad, that's why 2.1 billion people around the world follow it.

Secondly, target the people forcing Christian ideology on you, not the ideology itself.

And lastly, you don't have to be so savage and start swearing at anyone who has a different point of view to you. It's kind of ironic that you would abuse someone you don't even know and then talk about values.

 

[Riet]

It's fairly hard to disprove something that has no proof of existence to begin with.

See where we're going with this?

Nah, Im going to go a step further and state categorically that god CANNOT exist.

 

[Riet]

@Riet

Ok, fine then, I accept that you attack Chrisitianity because sometimes it's values are forced upon you.

But firstly, not all its values are bad, that's why 2.1 billion people around the world follow it.

Secondly, target the people forcing Christian ideology on you, not the ideology itself.

And lastly, you don't have to be so savage and start swearing at anyone who has a different point of view to you. It's kind of ironic that you would abuse someone you don't even know and then talk about values.

It is the ideology itself that fosters the overbearing paternalism

 

[Kwayera]

Secondly, target the people forcing Christian ideology on you, not the ideology itself.

That's retarded. Why the hell shouldn't we target an ideology? We target and dismiss political beliefs. Why not religious ones?

 

[Riet]

It doesn't matter anyway though, christianity is paradoxical.

 

[katie tully]

@Riet

Ok, fine then, I accept that you attack Chrisitianity because sometimes it's values are forced upon you.

But firstly, not all its values are bad, that's why 2.1 billion people around the world follow it.

Secondly, target the people forcing Christian ideology on you, not the ideology itself.

And lastly, you don't have to be so savage and start swearing at anyone who has a different point of view to you. It's kind of ironic that you would abuse someone you don't even know and then talk about values.

It has nothing to do with whether it's bad or not. Just because 2.1 billion people are retarded, doesn't mean the religion has any merit.

 

[Riet]

Oh and btw, the values of christianity that are "not bad" as you put it, are common to all civilised societies anyway, not exclusive to christianity. Infact the only ways in which religions manage to distinguish themselves is in how they are fucking stupid.

 

[mirakon]

I'e heard religion being called 'stupid', 'idiotic', 'moronic' etc in this forum. What aspects of religion do you consider 'stupid', 'idiotic', 'moronic' etc then? It would help illustrate your points of view

 

[JonathanM]

I can perhaps wrap my head around there not being the God in the form human religions have thought up, but can someone answer me this:

The universe was not always in existence. If I have my facts roughly corrected, the Big Bang occurred when a giant supernova/star or something blew up. Right? If so, how did that supernova/star or whatever get there in the first place?

When did time begin? To reiterate, how did that star come about?

Humans can't really comprehend this, just as we can't comprehend a fourth dimension, so any theory someone has about how the Universe came into existence could be valid, even a religious theory. This would be why many thinkers in the area write stuff along the lines of "I can't completely disprove that there is a God, but it's highly unlikely."

 

[Riet]

Time didn't begin, that is a contradiction in terms. To say what happened before space and time existed doesn't make sense, it's like saying what's north of the north pole.

As for issues with religion? Bigotry and hypocrisy would be the main ones.

 

[JonathanM]

Time didn't begin, that is a contradiction in terms. To say what happened before space and time existed doesn't make sense, it's like saying what's north of the north pole.

True, it is a contradiction. What I'm trying to get at is that as far as I'm aware, there had to have been a time where there was nothing and then 'suddenly' there was something. I can't really comprehend there always having been empty space, because even empty space is something, and if there was just empty space, something must have happened to create stars etc.

Not saying religion exists, I'm well aware of all the arguments against it, if I assume that many of them are in Richard Dawkins "God Delusion" which I've read. I just can't comprehend the above.

 

[Mitchell_man]

Yeah, you're heaps right and stuff, hey. Stereotyping all Christians under the same banner as the outspoken, irritating oppressive ones who force their faith down everyone elses throats and piss off all of the other Christians is totally the way to go. And it's also a little bit rich of you, when this entire discussion thread has involved atheists basically forcing their opinions of Christianity back on the Christians themselves.

 

[Riet]

True, it is a contradiction. What I'm trying to get at is that as far as I'm aware, there had to have been a time where there was nothing and then 'suddenly' there was something. I can't really comprehend there always having been empty space, because even empty space is something, and if there was just empty space, something must have happened to create stars etc.

Not saying religion exists, I'm well aware of all the arguments against it, if I assume that many of them are in Richard Dawkins "God Delusion" which I've read. I just can't comprehend the above.

Man read A Brief History of Time I can't abstract it enough to explain what I mean properly, your view is based on the concept of time that we are used to, but that breaks down at the big bang and so asking what was before it doesn't make sense. the universe as a singularity just existed and there was a big bang.

Quite simply though, why can't the universe just exist but god can?

 

[Riet]

Yeah, you're heaps right and stuff, hey. Stereotyping all Christians under the same banner as the outspoken, irritating oppressive ones who force their faith down everyone elses throats and piss off all of the other Christians is totally the way to go. And it's also a little bit rich of you, when this entire discussion thread has involved atheists basically forcing their opinions of Christianity back on the Christians themselves.

he asked us for our opinions you mong.

 

[mirakon]

Riet, go to the Does God Exist forum for answers on that particular topic. In the mean time let's address your claims on bigotry and hypocrisy on religion.

Firstly, just because some Christians are hypocritical bigots it doesn't mean all Christians are and furthermore, it doesn't mean that particularly religion i.s For example, your swearing and abuse against religious people (Quote: 'fucking stupid', 'cunts') is dripping with bigotry. Using your own logic, as you are a bigot, all atheists are biggests (since this is fualty logic, atheists are not all bigots and neither are all Christians).

Similarly hypocrisy is something evident in your arguments. Claims that religion conflict with morals and values eg. what you deem as right. However, is anything truly right? Right is a subjective term in this case. Thereofre you cannot claim that religions are wrong. The hypocrisy comes in when once again you abuse and oppress religious people and then accuse them of doing the same to others. (see above for examples).

As is evident, bigotry and hypocrisy are not only in Christians and Chrisitanity but in atheists. They are characteristics of humanity as a whole and its a huge and incorrect generalisation of accusing Christians of these traits.

 

[Kwayera]

The universe was not always in existence. If I have my facts roughly corrected, the Big Bang occurred when a giant supernova/star or something blew up. Right? If so, how did that supernova/star or whatever get there in the first place?

When did time begin? To reiterate, how did that star come about?

You mean singularity. All ideas regarding cosmogeny are currently very speculative - which is understandable. This will change with time and the development of technologies. It's all very mind-bending but there is no reason to assume that we will never know what caused the singularity and what indeed, if anything (i.e. another universe) there was before the singularity occured. Unlikely maybe, but impossible?

Humans can't really comprehend this, just as we can't comprehend a fourth dimension, so any theory someone has about how the Universe came into existence could be valid, even a religious theory. This would be why many thinkers in the area write stuff along the lines of "I can't completely disprove that there is a God, but it's highly unlikely."

What we can't comprehend we can certainly describe mathematically - 11-dimensional space and super-symmetry! Whyfor God?