Aboriginal Communities (2 Viewers)

[redmayne]

Why pump a disproportionate amount of money per capita into programs for rural communities in health and education, which runs to the detriment of urban communities that need this money and will deliver a higher return per capita, rather than encouraging (or practically enforcing by removal) them to move to urban centres where there is already substantial infrastructure to assist them.

It's a lot cheaper and more efficient to fund programs to improve health and welfare where there is a higher density of people, the government shouldn't be subsidizing communities that can't demonstrate any plan for economic sustainability.

I would say exactly the same thing about all funding to rural communities, subsidies for farmers, the national broadband network etc...

You do know that Indigenous people receive 88 cents in health funding per capita for every $1 dollar spent on other Australians? And don't hold me to this but I'm almost certain it's similar for education, it's definitely less aswell.

 

[showy]

I have experienced Aboriginal dominant rural communities and the welfare dependence that exists there, and the problem is far worse than what the majority believes.

In the rural NSW town of Wilcannia, Aboriginal people live in the pub, and in the gutter outside when it's closed. You cannot leave a new car alone for fear of theft or breakage. Tourist booklets suggest visitors do not stop there. It's very confronting, disheartening and even more so scary.

It's easy to sit behind city/suburban computer screens and insist government injects funding into education/health schemes, but fixing the problem is far too large and costly.

This is why governments aren't striving to do more about the issue. There is lack of large public concern and actions in remote communities do not impact election outcomes. The cost on the government in transfer payments is relatively small, or at least far smaller than the cost of 'fixing' the problem.

 

[jazzzod]

Interesting demographics
School Profile | ACARA

 

[redmayne]

I have experienced Aboriginal dominant rural communities and the welfare dependence that exists there, and the problem is far worse than what the majority believes.

In the rural NSW town of Wilcannia, Aboriginal people live in the pub, and in the gutter outside when it's closed. You cannot leave a new car alone for fear of theft or breakage. Tourist booklets suggest visitors do not stop there. It's very confronting, disheartening and even more so scary.

It's easy to sit behind city/suburban computer screens and insist government injects funding into education/health schemes, but fixing the problem is far too large and costly.

This is why governments aren't striving to do more about the issue. There is lack of large public concern and actions in remote communities do not impact election outcomes. The cost on the government in transfer payments is relatively small, or at least far smaller than the cost of 'fixing' the problem.

Nobody is arguing that there isn't a problem in Aboriginal communities.

No one is arguing that the state of the welfare system is fine right now.

And no one here is not concerned about the issue, however they feel about it.

I don't necessarily want more money injected into it, I want the money there already to be used better. Unlike many, I've seen it first hand, so I have some perspective thanks. I didn't just decide to type this stuff out in the comfort of my middle class home in Sydney.

 

[Serius]

So these Aboriginal communities in the NT and such, as far as I'm aware they have no sustainable industries if at all, and only exist as a result of Federal government pumping money in. If we stopped putting money in they'd collapse (if they haven't already, lol). What benefit does the Commonwealth gain from putting money into these communities?

Also, what do the ancaps and et al think about this? Non-economically viable, should just let the market take affect right?

Sure, lets just withdraw money and let people die, that sounds like the Australian thing to do.

Or maybe we can take their money away as an "insentive" to go where the jobs are....oh wait, they get paid a pittence as it is. Do you know how remote these communities are? it takes a lot of money to relocate somewhere and they dont have it. How can they possibly move when you take away what small amount of money they have? they cant do it as it is.

Maybe if you moved entire towns at once to be closer to darwin or a mine or something, but cutting off welfare isnt the way to do it.

Imagine if this type of thinking resulted in legislation that got passed...we would be even more of a laughing stock for the world. Hey look a the awseeees! they let people in the outback die because they are black! whata great country! i also heard they are also introducing internet filters just like Iran and China! what a progressive, free western country, sure sounds like a great place to live.

 

[Graney]

You do know that Indigenous people receive 88 cents in health funding per capita for every $1 dollar spent on other Australians? And don't hold me to this but I'm almost certain it's similar for education, it's definitely less aswell.

But the return on investment.
Much more of that 88c is wasted than would be the case if they lived in an urban center.

 

[Slidey]

Why pump a disproportionate amount of money per capita into programs for rural communities in health and education, which runs to the detriment of urban communities that need this money and will deliver a higher return per capita, rather than encouraging (or practically enforcing by removal) them to move to urban centres where there is already substantial infrastructure to assist them.

It's a lot cheaper and more efficient to fund programs to improve health and welfare where there is a higher density of people, the government shouldn't be subsidizing communities that can't demonstrate any plan for economic sustainability.

I would say exactly the same thing about all funding to rural communities, subsidies for farmers, the national broadband network etc...

Couldn't fucking agree more.

 

[loquasagacious]

Agree with Graney.

Also redmayne I have spent time in Indigenous communities and also have worked in the Indigenous policy space...

 

[Yasser Arafat]

Just got back from footy training with the brothers

yeah boi

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[banco55]

Sure, lets just withdraw money and let people die, that sounds like the Australian thing to do.

Or maybe we can take their money away as an "insentive" to go where the jobs are....oh wait, they get paid a pittence as it is. Do you know how remote these communities are? it takes a lot of money to relocate somewhere and they dont have it. How can they possibly move when you take away what small amount of money they have? they cant do it as it is.

Maybe if you moved entire towns at once to be closer to darwin or a mine or something, but cutting off welfare isnt the way to do it.

Imagine if this type of thinking resulted in legislation that got passed...we would be even more of a laughing stock for the world. Hey look a the awseeees! they let people in the outback die because they are black! whata great country! i also heard they are also introducing internet filters just like Iran and China! what a progressive, free western country, sure sounds like a great place to live.

So Aboriginals are just helpless lemmings who if we cut off the money spigot will sit in the desert and die? You don't think they'd have a brainwave and move to a town or a city?

 

[aussie-boy]

No, very pretty but just no.

I could go on but it's too hot and I'm feeling very lazy.

Thats a shit reply to an excellent post

It is impossible for a town with no proper supporting industry to be economically self sustainable - full stop

This is exactly why so many 'ghost towns' exist around the world

And if so, both a failed one and a thriving one?

A big fat healthy leech is still a parasite.

 

[Serius]

So Aboriginals are just helpless lemmings who if we cut off the money spigot will sit in the desert and die? You don't think they'd have a brainwave and move to a town or a city?

How are the going to move, magic? their sole source if income is welfare, which barely covers basics.

Its like job seeking while on the dole. Plenty of people want to work, but the pittance they are given is barely enough left over for a train ticket to sydney for the interview, let alone the hundreds needed for equipment, uniforms and training. Imagine how shit it must feel to be offered a job, and then realise you cant afford the stuff you need to get the job, and centrelink wont give you any help in getting that stuff.

Its even worse if you are trying to move your whole family and all of your stuff, and then magically find a place to live and a job in the big city before you run out of money and die.

Most probably wouldnt die, but it wont be ideal, many would turn to crime.

I would have no major problem if whole towns were moved to larger towns and cities where the jobs are, if its done in the right way they would probably welcome it, its not fun living in the sticks and having no money and no job.

 

[banco55]

How are the going to move, magic? their sole source if income is welfare, which barely covers basics.

Its like job seeking while on the dole. Plenty of people want to work, but the pittance they are given is barely enough left over for a train ticket to sydney for the interview, let alone the hundreds needed for equipment, uniforms and training. Imagine how shit it must feel to be offered a job, and then realise you cant afford the stuff you need to get the job, and centrelink wont give you any help in getting that stuff.

Its even worse if you are trying to move your whole family and all of your stuff, and then magically find a place to live and a job in the big city before you run out of money and die.

Most probably wouldnt die, but it wont be ideal, many would turn to crime.

I would have no major problem if whole towns were moved to larger towns and cities where the jobs are, if its done in the right way they would probably welcome it, its not fun living in the sticks and having no money and no job.

Many would turn to crime? There'd be noone to rob and nothing to steal if they stayed in those remote communities after the taxpayer funding is cut off.

It's not just centerlink money that keeps those little taxpayer funded colonies going. They are subsidized on a multitude of levels. I don't think we are obligated to find them all jobs before we decide to stop subsidising these remote settlements.

 

[loquasagacious]

Its like job seeking while on the dole. Plenty of people want to work, but the pittance they are given is barely enough left over for a train ticket to sydney for the interview, let alone the hundreds needed for equipment, uniforms and training. Imagine how shit it must feel to be offered a job, and then realise you cant afford the stuff you need to get the job, and centrelink wont give you any help in getting that stuff.

Try to assume less and know more:

The Employment Pathway Fund (EPF) is a flexible pool of funds available to Job Services Australia providers to purchase a broad range of assistance to help you get the right training and other support to help you find and keep a job. The fund is designed to enable optimum flexibility so that each eligible job seeker receives assistance based on their individual needs and their barriers to employment. So the more help you need, the more help you get.
Some of the types of assistance which may be purchased for you under the EPF could include, but is not limited to:

• training courses
• work related clothing and safety equipment
• short term travel costs
• relocation costs to commence in employment
• other personal support services.

Your Job Services Australia provider will consider your needs and the needs of the other job seekers that are receiving services from them, when they are deciding what to purchase for you through the EPF.
You should talk to your Job Services Australia provider to discuss the best options for you.

Stream services

Its even worse if you are trying to move your whole family and all of your stuff, and then magically find a place to live and a job in the big city before you run out of money and die.

I would have no major problem if whole towns were moved to larger towns and cities where the jobs are, if its done in the right way they would probably welcome it, its not fun living in the sticks and having no money and no job.

Relocating people is a very difficult area. Clearly doing it by force is wrong so it must be voluntary. If you want to do it right though it costs money. Serious money. On top of the relocation costs (which are not insignificant) there are ongoing costs to help support people and ensure the relocation 'sticks'.

The Coalition Government piloted a relocation program which moved people from the Shoalhaven and Port Lincoln to WA to fill identified job vacancies in the resources industry.The current Government is piloting a 'mobility' program for Indigenous Australians which essentially does the same thing. At the softer end of the spectrum they are also investing in 'aspiration' building a component of which can be encouraging Indigenous youth to aspire to live in more urban areas.

 

[Yasser Arafat]

e d u c a t i o n

 

[Yasser Arafat]

oh yeah so much sports funding in aus
abo sports funding so we start winning the olympic games
so many amazing abo atheletes who have no opportunies and get into drugs at liek 14 and shit

 

[Serius]

Try to assume less and know more:



Stream services



Relocating people is a very difficult area. Clearly doing it by force is wrong so it must be voluntary. If you want to do it right though it costs money. Serious money. On top of the relocation costs (which are not insignificant) there are ongoing costs to help support people and ensure the relocation 'sticks'.

The Coalition Government piloted a relocation program which moved people from the Shoalhaven and Port Lincoln to WA to fill identified job vacancies in the resources industry.The current Government is piloting a 'mobility' program for Indigenous Australians which essentially does the same thing. At the softer end of the spectrum they are also investing in 'aspiration' building a component of which can be encouraging Indigenous youth to aspire to live in more urban areas.

I didnt assume anything, i know because i have been there. That information is out dated. As of jan 1st 2010 stream 1 [the vast majority of job seekers] get no assistance. They cant even apply to get their train ticket for a job interview paid for. The only way [we were told] to stream up for us is to be out of a job for 2 years. Theres probably other ways too like acting suicidal or faking an illness like insomnia, but the simple fact is that most people get no financial assistance to find a job.

As for relocating, if its done right i dont have a major problem with it. Forcing people isnt right, but providing assistance, encouraging them, setting them up with a job and a place to live when they arrive is a good idea. Some of the unis in Australia have similar programs where they basically fly them out of remote communities to study, set them up in a place, provide all kinds of assistance which is fantastic. The key is always going to be education.

 

[Yasser Arafat]

i highly doubt u could drive something just below the speed of light i do belive the ground speed record is in the region of 350mph which is a mear 100 times less that the speed of light idiot so in order to travel the speed at which u specify would i not need to be poileting the vehicle?

 

[loquasagacious]

I didnt assume anything, i know because i have been there. That information is out dated. As of jan 1st 2010 stream 1 [the vast majority of job seekers] get no assistance. They cant even apply to get their train ticket for a job interview paid for. The only way [we were told] to stream up for us is to be out of a job for 2 years. Theres probably other ways too like acting suicidal or faking an illness like insomnia, but the simple fact is that most people get no financial assistance to find a job.

As for relocating, if its done right i dont have a major problem with it. Forcing people isnt right, but providing assistance, encouraging them, setting them up with a job and a place to live when they arrive is a good idea. Some of the unis in Australia have similar programs where they basically fly them out of remote communities to study, set them up in a place, provide all kinds of assistance which is fantastic. The key is always going to be education.

I don't have time to query our datatables but last time I checked stream 1 was not the majority of job seekers. Also worth noting that redudant workers get priority access to stream 2.

Also while you are correct that stream 1 job seekers do not recieve the same level of assistance as other job seekers you fail to say why this is a bad thing. Job seekers are assessed based on the ease with which they will find work and graded between stream 1 and stream 4. The people who need the intensive support (stream 4) get the support they need, the people who will find work quite readily (stream 1) don't have money wasted on them.

The old Job Network system imposed a similar system however it was bound to the active participation model and the job seeker continuum - or in english you had to progress sequentially through the various categories of assistance. And on top of which the intensive assistance stream (PSP) was capped and had a wait list. The new Job Services Australia model discards the continuum model and caps - this means that at the point of registration a job seeker is assessed and can be placed in the appropriate level of assistance - without having to progress through lower levels or be stalled on a wait list. Furthermore the job seeker or the [provider can request that the grading decision be reviewed.

 

[Will Shakespear]

So Aboriginals are just helpless lemmings who if we cut off the money spigot will sit in the desert and die? You don't think they'd have a brainwave and move to a town or a city?

they walk back n forth between the walls of the community, until you assign them various skills:
- wife basher
- petrol sniffer
- alcoholic
- boomerang thrower
and then you have to use your supply of the skillsets to successfully rob the bottle-o without getting more than a certain % of your Aboriginals arrested.