Abortion debate (2 Viewers)

[neo o]

Are you alluding to my given example as being improbable????? This exact situation happened to a very close friend of mine when i was in grade 10- are you telling me that she should have given birth to the child that was created out of such violence? No fucking way should a woman have to put herself through such emotional turmoil and im sorry but as a male you could NEVER understand what she went through. As a male, you would never have to face the prospect of getting pregnant and being left to raise the child all alone-

SO AS A MALE YOU HAVE NO FUCKING RIGHT TO CAST MORAL JUDGEMENT ON WHAT A WOMAN DOES WITH HER BODY. There is nothing that infuriates me more than someone passes judjement when they could never understand where the person they are judjing is coming from

I'd argue that the mere possibility that a woman may be killing a living thing should justify at the very least, stringent restrictions upon the practice.

Interpret what I said how you will, but I don't see myself either "casting moral judgement" upon any women - or even advocating the prohibition of abortion.

PS: As a male I'm quite capable of reasoning/logic. Despite being male I feel that I'm quite capable of being able to comment on abortion. The "you'll never understand, because you aren't x, y or z" line doesn't carry much weight here. Unless we happen to be talking about Chinese democracy, in which case it's just classic NCAP .

 

[Phanatical]

A few points.

I don't support, but I do understand why some men take action to abort their own children through violence against the mother. If the mother makes a mistake, she can essentially sidestep the parental responsibilities (setting aside the issue of emotional problems) by aborting her child. The father does not have the "safety net" that abortion presents to the mother, and if he impregnates a woman and the woman delivers a child, he has no option by law other than to provide child support.

Putting aside ethical considerations of whether the unborn child should be aborted or not, the main argument used by the people in this very debate centres around the "Right" of a woman to choose whether or not to raise the child, with the emphasis being on the Mother's Right. The father has no such right, with the "safety net" enjoyed by the mother not present for the father. A pro-life father may despair at his child being murdered. A deadbeat leb might not want to be forced to pay child support. The rights of the father should at least be entered into the debate.

Now we get into the nitty-gritty of the argument. As males, we supposedly have "no fucking right" to make moral judgements on the actions of women in regards to her body. But for males, the father bears HALF of the responsibility for the child. I would not want my son or daughter murdered because it might interfere with my partner's social life. Yet that's exactly the argument I'm seeing (and it disgusts me). For many males And females, our instinct and concern for the mother forms only half of the equation. There are TWO lives in question, and the rights and welfare of one are in counterpoint with the rights and welfare of the other. You may disagree whether the baby has the right to life or not, but you cannot question the motives and intents of those who hold pro-life views.

 

[imsooverskool]

Neo, it is pretty clear from your post and the views in it that you are casting moral judgement on women so don't give me the "take what you want from what i say" because it is crystal clear what your opinion is.

As a male you are more than capable to both comment on a topic such as abortion as well as being more than capable to reason/logic the for's and against of a topic. But i disagree that you, or any male, could ever truly understand or empathise with a woman placed in a position that i described above as you could never be placed in such as a situation.

Thus, it is easier for you to dismiss the needs for legalised abortion, because you as a man, will never have to experience what these women go through!

 

[bshoc]

When you kill someone, you kill someone - its murder. I dont think you should get off easy just becuase you're a slut.

 

[imsooverskool]

When you kill someone, you kill someone - its murder. I dont think you should get off easy just becuase you're a slut.

Hmm, i should really just ignore this comment becuase trolls like you enjoy the attention. But i really can't resist

Why don't you just fuck off and die, it really is a shame that your slut of a mother didn't abort you, because you truly are a shining example why abortion should be legal.

How dare you call someone like my friend a slut, when she was a virgin when she was raped and subsequently 'killed' her baby? Don't comment on something that you have no idea about cunt face!

 

[bshoc]

Hmm, i should really just ignore this comment becuase trolls like you enjoy the attention. But i really can't resist

Why don't you just fuck off and die, it really is a shame that your slut of a mother didn't abort you, because you truly are a shining example why abortion should be legal.

How dare you call someone like my friend a slut, when she was a virgin when she was raped and subsequently 'killed' her baby? Don't comment on something that you have no idea about cunt face!

haha ok I'll play

firstly I never said exceptions couldnt be made for rape or incest. That aside you're a shining example of why some people's hands need to be cut off at birth (notice that im not advocating your death here) - believe me I would personally bought your doctor a stainless steel cleaver had I known.

Also dont go around calling random ppl posting under assumed account names whom you will never know - it shows alot more for your intelligence than it does mine. I can understand that your mother may be a slut and you feel the urge to relate your personal experiences upon others - but really we dont want to know.

 

[imsooverskool]

haha ok I'll play

firstly I never said exceptions couldnt be made for rape or incest. That aside you're a shining example of why some people's hands need to be cut off at birth (notice that im not advocating your death here) - believe me I would personally bought your doctor a stainless steel cleaver had I known.

Also dont go around calling random ppl posting under assumed account names whom you will never know - it shows alot more for your intelligence than it does mine. I can understand that your mother may be a slut and you feel the urge to relate your personal experiences upon others - but really we dont want to know.

What the hell does the bolded sentence mean? If you are trying to win an intellectual war with me, please try to construct sentences with a semblance of coherence.

I know i went a little far with the wishing you aborted comment, but what you said was an all encompassing statement that alluded to all women who have abortions as being sluts, next time don't make such a broad, insulting statement and expect not to get flamed for it. Yeah my mum may be a slut, but i don't really have any issues with that pal

 

[Generator]

PS: As a male I'm quite capable of reasoning/logic. Despite being male I feel that I'm quite capable of being able to comment on abortion. The "you'll never understand, because you aren't x, y or z" line doesn't carry much weight here. Unless we happen to be talking about Chinese democracy, in which case it's just classic NCAP .

Bam!

Meanwhile, the circus has moved to Canberra - Joyce targets pill dilemma

Also of interest may be this short piece from Crikey - RU open-minded enough Senator?

 

[crazyhomo]

When you kill someone, you kill someone - its murder. I dont think you should get off easy just becuase you're a slut.

no. not the same thing. killing is the general taking of a life. murder is a specific type of killing

murder is killing, but killing is not murder

 

[withoutaface]

Just to those using the rape analogy, the morning after pill works for 72 hours after sex, and I suppose it'd be one of the first things the cops would tell you to do if you came forward.

Personally I view the foetus as on the same level of an animal (coarse judgement I know, but it's necessary to justify other rights such as those to smoke and drink while pregnant), and thus the woman's right trumps that of the foetus.

 

[Phanatical]

Murder is the premeditated, wilful killing of a human life.

 

[withoutaface]

Murder is the premeditated, wilful killing of a human life.

Wrong. Murder is the premeditated unlawful killing of a human life. Also there is much debate as to whether a foetus constitutes a human life.

 

[hello_world]

I wouldn't mind it. I like boobies. However, trolling aside...


No idea about what? Ok ok, no more trolling.


Actually, in a situation like the one that you're describing all the power is in the woman's hands. The ball is in her proverbial court. The man has no say in the outcome, but no matter what she chooses he'll have to make quite a few sacrifices himself to pay maintenance. Don't you think that that is a little harsh in a situation where both parties share the risk equally (unprotected sex).


They aren't trying to ban RU486. They are trying to restrict the sale of the drug, because they believe it has caused deaths overseas. This will restrict, but not prevent access. I think that YOU are the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.






Should she have the right to kill something which could be alive? What's the greater crime? Killing something which may be alive or encroaching upon a woman's "freedoms". I'd argue that the mere possibility that a woman may be killing a living thing should justify at the very least, stringent restrictions upon the practice.


Just to make your scenario completely improbable, let's make it an 11 year old girl, raped by her father, whom has three different kinds of genetic diseases all of which the child is likely to inherit. WOULD YOU ABORT?

PS: Could someone explain to me how you can murder an unborn foetus, yet at the same time a woman can willingly choose to terminate it?

what on earth is trolling?

i don't understand what is so good about boobs, and i think you're forgetting about how we bleed for 5 days a month

Tony Abott has no idea because he doesn't understand the consequences of having a baby when you're young and not married and don't want it and weren't allowed to abort it:

- you get a reeeeeeeally loose pussy and no guy is going to want to have sex with u
- guys your age aren't going to want to date a single mum
- if the baby can't fit out they have to snip it (extreme pain)
- you have to wait to get your degree unless you can afford full time child care
- you can't go travelling EVER EVER

i know in some circumstances the father might stay with you, but think about how much it will ruin his life

i don't think men care about abortions being banned because they don't have to live with as many consequences as women and can still continue with their studies, etc.

i'm just wondering neo, it says u did your HSC in 2004, so you're pretty young aren't you?

are u telling me you don't have a sex life? and if you do, wouldn't you use protection?

and what if the condom broke or the pill didn't work for some reason and your partner got pregnant?

what would you do? wouldn't you be opting for an abortion? or would you want the baby to fuck over your partner's life?

 

[withoutaface]

If condoms break you take the morning after pill.

Idiot.

 

[hello_world]

If condoms break you take the morning after pill.

Idiot.

sorry i meant to say "if the condom breaks and the morning-after pill doesn't work", because it has a 10 percent failure rate.

hey i thought u were FOR legal abortions

 

[erawamai]

Murder is the premeditated, wilful killing of a human life.

Murder doesn't have to be premditated. It also doesn't have to be wholly willful.

...and currently the termination of a foetus is not murder.

 

[Phanatical]

Maybe not in a legal sense, but it could be argued that in a moral sense abortion is just a form of murder.

 

[erawamai]

Maybe not in a legal sense, but it could be argued that in a moral sense abortion is just a form of murder.

Which you in the past have supported if the foetus is created as a result of rape. This would invovle an abortion. This is is murder according to your standards.

 

[crazyhomo]

Maybe not in a legal sense, but it could be argued that in a moral sense abortion is just a form of murder.

a 'form' of murder? a thought murder was murder

 

[withoutaface]

sorry i meant to say "if the condom breaks and the morning-after pill doesn't work", because it has a 10 percent failure rate.

hey i thought u were FOR legal abortions

I am, but it doesn't mean I won't play devils advocate when silly arguments are put forward.