Abortion debate (2 Viewers)

[bshoc]

So your definition of a whore is someone who enjoys sex?

.. and doesent face the consequences in engaging in the activity if they ever occur.

 

[*Minka*]

Well you never made any of that clear - although you truly made sure to sound like a slut - nevertheless I take back my comments.



If it is the womans fault, she should not be premitted choice.

Why should the woman be forced to take full responsibility for something that is also the mans doing?

Very backward thinking.

 

[wheredanton]

Why should the woman be forced to take full responsibility for something that is also the mans doing?
Very backward thinking.

He doesn't understand that men are involved in the process of making babies.

According to him all a woman has to do to get pregnant is to 'open her legs'. It's not like men are forced to have sex with women.

 

[bshoc]

Why should the woman be forced to take full responsibility for something that is also the mans doing?

Very backward thinking.

Unfurtunately we cannot change biology can we? So its a null point. Also the woman carrying the baby is the only one with the legal rights to it - sorry that would be a nice argument if men had a uterus and/or the legal rights to their unborn children.

Also its women - not men who decide to abort.

 

[veridis]

Actually there are people on adoption waiting lists. Some of them actually have to source from overseas.

most people who source overseas do so because of regulations and paperwork not because of lack of demand. once foster parents are in the system and approved there is considerable pressrue for them to keep taking kids and to care for multiple.

Morning after pills are acceptable, but they do present a danger to womans health - something you say you are crusading for.

i never said i thought abortions were good for womens health, phsyically or mentally, only referred to health when saying most abortions are early on cept for cases of health risks.

Scientifically, and I think, that anything past the zygote stage (usually 1 week) is technically speaking human - before that theres maybe a grey area, maybe.

fair enough. obviously i think otherwise but i dont think further discussion here will change either of our views at all

Laws can be changed (and will ) be changed, shame we cant elect our judges.

laws may be changed maybe not. but werent you just celebrating the decisions of the ultra-conservative US sepreme court who were appointed and unlikely to have been elected

No a broken arm is a broken arm, a broken mind is .. something beyond diagnosis, especially when their identification is based on a vote.

i dont know where you get this vote idea from. most diagnosis are made by individuals. only when they are disputed does it go to consensus decision. similar decisions are made over whether to operate or not in borderline cases of physical problems as well.

 

[*Minka*]

Unfurtunately we cannot change biology can we? So its a null point. Also the woman carrying the baby is the only one with the legal rights to it - sorry that would be a nice argument if men had a uterus and/or the legal rights to their unborn children.

Also its women - not men who decide to abort.

Thats right, we can't change biology so the decision on whether or not to keep a pregnancy must remain with women. As they have the legal rights to it, they also need to have the legal rights to abort the fetus if they see fit.

It is the women who has the abortion - but a lot of men trying to take their rights way.

 

[veridis]

He doesn't understand that men are involved in the process of making babies.

According to him all a woman has to do to get pregnant is to 'open her legs'. It's not like men are forced to have sex with women.

and its not like women are forced to have sex with men. attacking bshoc's (possibly chauvanistic) views on relationships has little to do with abortion. he has stated he thinks both the men and women involved are sluts and is correct in saying that abortion is a womens issue and that any involvement of a man at this stage is completely at the womans whim. he is not saying men shouldnt have to pay child support or shouldnt be held responsible but is saying that at this stage the actions are dependant on solely the womans choice and is thus her responsibility

 

[veridis]

It is the women who has the abortion - but a lot of men trying to take their rights way.

that is an irresponsible and divisive statement realing more about your sexist views than his. there are lots of women who are against abortion and lots of men who are pro choice. just as there are lots of men against abortion and lots of women who are pro choice. the role of men in improving womens rights is one of the most ignored aspects of modern history. if it was a simnple man vs woman stuggle i assure you that in our current society man would win.

 

[bshoc]

most people who source overseas do so because of regulations and paperwork not because of lack of demand.

Please dont tell me adopting a child from overseas is easier than local - total joke.

fair enough. obviously i think otherwise but i dont think further discussion here will change either of our views at all

Our views dont matter, because theres is a universal truth.

laws may be changed maybe not. but werent you just celebrating the decisions of the ultra-conservative US sepreme court who were appointed and unlikely to have been elected

Yes .. and? Obviously a court making the right decisions is still a good court.

i dont know where you get this vote idea from. most diagnosis are made by individuals. only when they are disputed does it go to consensus decision. similar decisions are made over whether to operate or not in borderline cases of physical problems as well.

Yes but diagnosis of problems varies depending on yearly revisions doesent it? Yes, yes it does.

 

[bshoc]

Thats right, we can't change biology so the decision on whether or not to keep a pregnancy must remain with women. As they have the legal rights to it, they also need to have the legal rights to abort the fetus if they see fit.

No it is the woman who must bear the responsibility, afterall its her biology.

It is the women who has the abortion - but a lot of men trying to take their rights way.

But its the child who dies, the mother lives irregaurdless.

Thats bloody chovenist.

 

[kateri88]

100, 000 abortions a year in australia every year...if even 10 were killed in a tragedy (terrorist attack etc) it would headline for weeks
how is this intentional murder any different to abortion????

 

[veridis]

Please dont tell me adopting a child from overseas is easier than local - total joke.

in terms of cost and effort no. in terms of paperwork constant assessment and legal requirements yes.

Our views dont matter, because these is a universal truth.

then pray tell why does so much of the medical establishment disagree with you

Yes .. and? Obviously a court making the right decisions is still a good court.

and here i was under the impression you had high moral standards. hitler brought germany out of the depression, improved standards of living, reduced unemployment and almost eliminated crime. good man with good policies? far from it

Yes but diagnosis of problems varies depending on yearly revisions doesent it? Yes, yes it does.

what aspect of medicine doesnt undergo changes as knowledge increases? would you prefer we used the same treatments we were using 200 years ago?
yes psych has more gray areas than other fields but it does not suffer any problem every other field does not also experience

 

[veridis]

100, 000 abortions a year in australia every year...if even 10 were killed in a tragedy (terrorist attack etc) it would headline for weeks
how is this intentional murder any different to abortion????

because it isnt murder
wow that was simple

 

[kateri88]

baby 22 weeks, aborted
baby 22 weeks, born premature, intentionally killed within hours of birth

the difference??? nothing!!!!

 

[ur_inner_child]

baby 22 weeks, aborted
baby 22 weeks, born premature, intentionally killed within hours of birth

the difference??? nothing!!!!

Again, no one here supports late abortions.

 

[robbie1]

100, 000 abortions a year in australia every year...if even 10 were killed in a tragedy (terrorist attack etc) it would headline for weeks
how is this intentional murder any different to abortion????

If we had more females like you, the world would be a much better place.

 

[veridis]

baby 22 weeks, aborted
baby 22 weeks, born premature, intentionally killed within hours of birth

the difference??? nothing!!!!

baby born 22 weeks, likely to die anyway or suffer massive disabilities. also not the issue. late terms are usualy only allowed for medical reasons

 

[kateri88]

baby born 22 weeks, likely to die anyway or suffer massive disabilities. also not the issue. late terms are usualy only allowed for medical reasons

Are you willing to say that a 19 week abortion is any more moral than 22 weeks??? (jst for the record i know plenty of people who have healthily survived very premature pregancies)

 

[robbie1]

3) Women don't own their own bodies, God/Jesus does.

This argument seems to come out of the idea that women can't fully comprehend their bodies (ie they don't know when they are going to die, can't count the hairs on their head, that kind of stuff) and thus because God/Jesus can then they must belong to God/Jesus.

Well, in saying that let me ask you this: If God/Jesus owns a woman's body is He therefore responsible for what occurs to that body? Thus, according to your argument in regards to personal responsibility God/Jesus is responsible for getting the woman pregnant in the first place! I mean, she can't possibly be held responsible for what happens to her body if she doesn't even own it now can she?

I applaud your efforts, but your way off the mark my friend.

The body belongs to God, but the one thing on this earth that belongs to us humans is our free will - given to us by God.

So therfore we are responsible for our own actions. Everytime we sin (and abortion is a major sin) we crucify Jesus in our hearts because He lives in each one of us, whether you accept that or not. You don't have to while your here, as you can exercise your free will.

But when you leave this earth you will have to answer to Him, just as I will.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If they don't want a baby, why did they spread their legs?

Who knows? Are you going to punish them for this or something? It's now a crime to have an unwanted pregnancy?