Attention all USyders - VSU Information (2 Viewers)

[Phanatical]

A few sandwiches take up minimal room in your bag, there really is no reason why anybody can't bring food to uni.

They do when they get crushed after the travelling, the throwing down of bag and the other daily wear.

 

[Phanatical]

You might want to look into the feasability of providing a fresh fruit stall at uni too - the fruit that you can buy from the union outlets is usually kind of off...

I love that idea. They have fresh fruit throughout the city that they buy nice and early at Flemington - they could make a big profit through it.

 

[walrusbear]

“Under VSU the student body would have no political representation”
Under the present system a student's views are only represented if they are left wing,

the union funds right wing groups such as your SULC, it's just most politically minded students lean toward the left. you can't blame the union because your views aren't the most popular

and there have been several underhanded tactics used by the SRC to artificially inflate numbers at protests, such as holding free BBQ's, which would encourage students who are complete apathetic about an issue to protest against it. Also important to note is that the four most recent major SRC political campaigns have all failed to change a thing (no VSU, save nursing, no HECS increases, no war in Iraq).

student protests brought attention to important issues. the first three issues you listed relate to students directly. why shouldn't the student council throw their opinions into the mix? i also like how you implicitly align your far right cause with the apathy of general students.

“The childcare provided by the Union is an essential service”
This would be true if women spontaneously gave birth to children without having sex and going through nine months pregnancy first, but the fact of the matter is that they do. Every single mother who wants to attend university chose to engage in an act which could conceive a child (often without adequate protection), then chose not to abort, and finally chose to keep the child rather than putting it up for adoption. They chose to have this child, and if they didn’t consider the consequences of their decision, then why should the rest of the student community bail them out? Note also that having a child that they cannot afford childcare for does not preclude them from university forever, but rather until the child reaches five years of age and can attend school while the mother attends classes at university. Most students would probably also be interested to know that 85% of childcare users are actually Union employees, not students.

this is a petty argument. there's no reason why students can't pay a small fee to provide this service (which you've admitted does actually assist students). suggesting that education and parenthood are mutually exclusive does no one favours except those hoping to isolate themselves from the greater community (the ulterior motive here??).

you should also address these 'VSU myths'
The long term effects of VSU will mean a reduction in the value of USYD, with no funding geared toward the maintenance of associated sporting and cultural pursuits.
VSU will surrender student control of campus services.
VSU will diminish student representation and agency.

 

[Phanatical]

If somebody can afford to both go to university and raise a child, then they're hardly the most disadvantaged group in society. I'd suggest that it's the poor students who subsidise the less fortunate students who are in greater need of subsidy.

 

[withoutaface]

the union funds right wing groups such as your SULC, it's just most politically minded students lean toward the left. you can't blame the union because your views aren't the most popular

Actually we get minimal funding back because most of our events are either drinks nights, which those attending fund, or campaigns, which are funded by the candidates and donations from members of the community.

student protests brought attention to important issues. the first three issues you listed relate to students directly. why shouldn't the student council throw their opinions into the mix? i also like how you implicitly align your far right cause with the apathy of general students.

So it doesn't matter that it acheives nothing, or if protestors are gained through unscrupulous means, so long as they have good intentions?

this is a petty argument. there's no reason why students can't pay a small fee to provide this service (which you've admitted does actually assist students).

Yes there is, because they didn't make the decision to have a child they couldn't support.

suggesting that education and parenthood are mutually exclusive does no one favours except those hoping to isolate themselves from the greater community (the ulterior motive here??).

Yes, you're right. I want to live as a hermit on an island in Micronesia and never have contact with other people again.

you should also address these 'VSU myths'
The long term effects of VSU will mean a reduction in the value of USYD, with no funding geared toward the maintenance of associated sporting and cultural pursuits.

Most students couldn't tell you the first thing about what happened in the weekend's uni sporting matches, so they're gaining nothing from it. In order for something to be of cultural value it has to permeate throughout the university, sports don't do that.

VSU will surrender student control of campus services.

If the union still owns the buildings then they can control who does and doesn't lease them.

VSU will diminish student representation and agency.

As stated before, the major campaigns do nothing, and I've found that with minor issues such as too few tutors, all one has to do is email the lecturer and they'll either organise more tutors, or come in themselves to help the students.

 

[Jason Bourne]

Pfft, you're full of shit waf, EVERYONE knows the scores on campus sports. Sport is such an integral part of university life for the majority of students that I'm sure more people go to university nowadays just to engage themselves in SU Sports rather than acquiring an academic degree. You know why international students often pay 3 digit figures to study in Australia? University sports, of course.

In other words, I'm glad my money is no longer going towards funding other people's sports scholarships.

VSU-haters tend to fight as if campus life is gonna dissappear under the new laws. If anything, it helps to assert fairness. The poor student struggling to pay off his textbooks whilst working multiple crap-paying award jobs is forced to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to things such as political rallies, sports scholarships which benefits few, services as a result of a non-essential lifestyle choices etc. doesn't sound fair to me.

VSU, you bloody beauty.

 

[Phanatical]

Fuck uni sports. $144 of our student contributions goes towards sports, but only $3 goes towards the Arts. Am I really the only one who sees something wrong with that??!

 

[Xayma]

Fuck uni sports. $144 of our student contributions goes towards sports, but only $3 goes towards the Arts. Am I really the only one who sees something wrong with that??!

No you're not. But then I don't believe the $3 should be paid either. There are other activities other then the arts which help exercise the mind. Maybe we should pay for crosswords to be handed out or something else

 

[tennille]

No you're not. But then I don't believe the $3 should be paid either. There are other activities other then the arts which help exercise the mind. Maybe we should pay for crosswords to be handed out or something else

I prefer sudoku.

 

[Phanatical]

ISA is doing a new newsletter (to compete with the Honi and the UR), and that will have at least one puzzle. It's not only free, it really IS free of student funding.

 

[withoutaface]

ISA is doing a new newsletter (to compete with the Honi and the UR), and that will have at least one puzzle. It's not only free, it really IS free of student funding.

Libertas > that

 

[Phanatical]

Libertas hasn't been published in years. The Update comes out every fortnight.

 

[withoutaface]

That'll change come O-Week.

 

[walrusbear]

Actually we get minimal funding back because most of our events are either drinks nights, which those attending fund, or campaigns, which are funded by the candidates and donations from members of the community.

So it doesn't matter that it acheives nothing, or if protestors are gained through unscrupulous means, so long as they have good intentions?

Yes there is, because they didn't make the decision to have a child they couldn't support.

Yes, you're right. I want to live as a hermit on an island in Micronesia and never have contact with other people again.



Most students couldn't tell you the first thing about what happened in the weekend's uni sporting matches, so they're gaining nothing from it. In order for something to be of cultural value it has to permeate throughout the university, sports don't do that.

If the union still owns the buildings then they can control who does and doesn't lease them.
As stated before, the major campaigns do nothing, and I've found that with minor issues such as too few tutors, all one has to do is email the lecturer and they'll either organise more tutors, or come in themselves to help the students.

so basically your opinions and experiences are being universalised and the benefits or detriments of the policy aren't really being considered.
pretty short sighted

 

[withoutaface]

Wrong. Under your system the opinions of the few in power in the Union are forced onto the students, under mine students are free to choose what they want to pay for, thereby reflecting their own preferences through campus culture.

 

[walrusbear]

Wrong. Under your system the opinions of the few in power in the Union are forced onto the students, under mine students are free to choose what they want to pay for, thereby reflecting their own preferences through campus culture.

not really, you're just limiting the scope of the discussion - failing to address my concerns of how the policy will affect the university as a cultural icon and educational facility.
in terms of economic advantages most of your arguments are only drawn from your own experience and the assumption either that you represent a comfortable majority or that your experiences are more important than others with different needs.
you never prove how VSU will actually provide the services needed for the university in the short term as well as the future. that is of course, save a complete faith in a 'user pay' system which has been adopted doggedly despite concern from valuable corners of the community
so yes, it's pretty short-sighted

 

[walrusbear]

so your argument is that people with children shouldn't be financially assisted by the community? especially in instances of providing education

other causes beneficial to students aren't really under the microscope here. if they are beneficial to students then naturally the union would focus on them??

 

[withoutaface]

so your argument is that people with children shouldn't be financially assisted by the community? especially in instances of providing education

In cases of inherited poverty etc I think that offering financial assistance for education is worthwhile. However you make a choice to have a child, and if you don't realise that this might impact upon your ability to afford an education then, quite frankly, I don't want your Downie arse near my uni.

other causes beneficial to students aren't really under the microscope here. if they are beneficial to students then naturally the union would focus on them??

So you're saying students as individuals are incapable of decide what's best for students?

 

[walrusbear]

In cases of inherited poverty etc I think that offering financial assistance for education is worthwhile. However you make a choice to have a child, and if you don't realise that this might impact upon your ability to afford an education then, quite frankly, I don't want your Downie arse near my uni.

to bring this back down to earth, how much does it actually cost each student per year to maintain the on-campus child care? also, isn't child care about convenience - as well as financial benefits for parents? isn't it beneficial to the university as an educational facility to provide the best for its students? what's to be gained of stripping USYD of its student services?

So you're saying students as individuals are incapable of decide what's best for students?

isn't the union made up of 'individual' students?
i'm not even sure what you're getting at - i was merely questioning what malfoy was hinting at with other 'more deserving' causes

 

[walrusbear]

i don't see how a small fee going toward child care detracts from these services?? aren't these already within the focus of the union anyway??