Does God exist? (5 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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Alternatively, they then thank someone besides themselves when something in their life goes right. So their selfishness when something goes wrong is cancelled out by their selflessness when something goes right.
Two-way street, dude.



But Trinity Grammar isn't a charity. It's a service-provider, where people pay cash at the market rate for the provision of Trinity's services. Granted, those market prices are phenomenal to you or I, but because of a low supply of places at the school, they can afford to marginalise 99% of the demanders, and evidently the 700 families remaining have a far greater marginal benefit that they derive from Trinity's services, and hence have a higher reservation price.
Just because the school has slapped the title of a religion over their gates doesn't obligate them to be a charity.



And provide for emotional and spiritual needs of their followers, which the scientific community has thus far failed to do so in any comprehensive way.



I think if you actually read the New Testament you'd find that Jesus told the Apostles that he had come to destroy the old rules of Judaism and usher in a new era of a merciful God.
Iron, I need chapter and verse reference here please.



There are certain legitimate concerns that religions have with scientific advance and modern culture. The issue of abortion is one very obvious and contentious issue.
But very few holymen in the Western world openly and absolutely oppose scientific advance. The vast majority simply realise (truthfully, too) that scientific advance is amoral, and the new discoveries or technologies can as often be used for evil as for good (see nuclear fission as the obvious example). Religions in the West mostly wish to guide scientific advance along it's path, not to halt it entirely. They want to give morality and humanity to something which far too often deals only with cold, hard facts.
+ rep :)

Not that I'm a hardcore believer or anything. I just think it's unfair when people get totally shredded for their belief in a higher power by people who consider their scientific knowledge as the utmost authority...not saying that everyone who takes the scientific POV is like that by any means, but you know what I'm saying.
 

Carrotsticks

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Religions in the West mostly wish to guide scientific advance along it's path, not to halt it entirely. They want to give morality and humanity to something which far too often deals only with cold, hard facts.
Our world is much better off with cold, hard facts than false information that the earth is 6000 years old and that the bible is the word of god.

Furthermore, religion HAS completely halted science. Because of Bush's idiocy, he stopped the development of stem cell research under heavy influence of his religious beliefs. If you look at the wider community, the majority of people who abhor stem cell research are catholics.

With this technology, we could regrow organs, eliminate the need of skin grafts , blood donations and most importantly, eliminate the concept of paralysis.

I don't mind religious people in general, but when they try to implement their belief upon schools, communities and people in general, that ticks us atheists.
 

moll.

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+ rep :)

Not that I'm a hardcore believer or anything. I just think it's unfair when people get totally shredded for their belief in a higher power by people who consider their scientific knowledge as the utmost authority...not saying that everyone who takes the scientific POV is like that by any means, but you know what I'm saying.
lol newbie.
For all intensive purposes I'm actually an atheist. In fact, I have about 400 posts in this thread alone, the first two hundred of which were mostly just anti-religious flaming.
I've since learned the art of objectivity.
 

Kwayera

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+ rep :)

Not that I'm a hardcore believer or anything. I just think it's unfair when people get totally shredded for their belief in a higher power by people who consider their scientific knowledge as the utmost authority...not saying that everyone who takes the scientific POV is like that by any means, but you know what I'm saying.
Science is not an authority, nor is it considered as such (i.e. something to be worshipped) by scientists. It is a method, a tool, for discovering knowledge/truth/whatever.

Science is not a religion.
 

moll.

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Our world is much better off with cold, hard facts than false information that the earth is 6000 years old and that the bible is the word of god.

Furthermore, religion HAS completely halted science. Because of Bush's idiocy, he stopped the development of stem cell research under heavy influence of his religious beliefs. If you look at the wider community, the majority of people who abhor stem cell research are catholics.

With this technology, we could regrow organs, eliminate the need of skin grafts , blood donations and most importantly, eliminate the concept of paralysis.

I don't mind religious people in general, but when they try to implement their belief upon schools, communities and people in general, that ticks us atheists.
Well, the problems that Bush has created is actually a constitutional issue, not a religious issue. The major problem was not that Bush is religious, it was that the American political system focuses far too much power in the hands of a single person and his unelected clique of friends, who all have virtually zero accountability.
Yes, Bush was hindering the advance of science, but he was elected by the American public who were fully aware (at least by the second election, if not the first) that he would do so. Bush's extremist evangelist religious views are part of a demographic minority, but he was still democratically elected. So this isn't a problem with Bush's religion, which only accounts for a small (although significant) percentage of Americans, but is instead a problem with the American democratic system.

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with reigious institutions wishing to be cautious with scientific advance. The effects of stem cell research are entirely unknown, so being a little wary when wandering in the dark is perfectly reasonable. You no doubt know the old saying about fools rushing in?
 

Iron

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Bush wasnt democratically electedlol
But yeah, the US gives the president virtually total authority to start a war in two seconds, but good luck getting some healthcare legislation
 
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You clearly read my post out of context, internet tuff dood. I was just throwing a random point out to the previous posters definition of supernatural to try and gauge what he meant by supernatural. SO PLEASE LEARN TO READ BEFORE TRYING TO BE SMART.

Also, please refer to Bradcubes post. You're arguing your own argument.
No little man, my argument is not contradictory.
And yes I did take a quote out of context..that is the defintion of a qoute...a selected sentence taken from text...what an idotic thing to say.
You fail to adress any off my important points, but alas this was exepected, as 'beliviers' are by defition unable to grasp sophisticated concepts, and unmoved by rational discourse, their babyish beliefs are not based upon good reasoning in the first place, again, by defition they are unaware of their neurological misfirings.
Please refrain from commenting in the future, people who are by defition dumber than the rest of us will merely embarrass themselves.
And the aim of my insults is not to degrade or humiliate believers, but to remind them they are already degraded and humiliated.
 

Sarebs

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I used to go to church every second Sunday when I was younger, and I believed in God. Then when I grew older and heard of animal cruelty (cats being set on fire, animals being kicked to death), I knew a higher power such as God didn't exist. If he did, he wouldn't let that happen.

Just my view, it's right to me.
 

Carrotsticks

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I used to go to church every second Sunday when I was younger, and I believed in God. Then when I grew older and heard of animal cruelty (cats being set on fire, animals being kicked to death), I knew a higher power such as God didn't exist. If he did, he wouldn't let that happen.

Just my view, it's right to me.
Very true.
 

Garygaz

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Fine, you want me to address your argument... First let me cut out half of your elitist boasting about dominating my quote.

'God' is thus a mere misfiring, the product of casting darwinian utilities upon a darkness to which we are infinitely ignorant, it is what our minds demand.
Even if we were to grant you the existence of 'God', defined as the '5th plane of infra-red light'. It would in no way provide good reasons, let alone evidence, to suggest it 'created' (the concept of creation being the most obvious misfiring) us, or has plans for us,...unknowable informantion that is not-worth-knowing. One does not need to 'disprove' any interpretion of god, it can be dismissed without evidence, keep such illconcieved and abject naviety contained within the constipated champers of your shrivelled mind.
'unknowable informantion that is not-worth-knowing.'

The irony of that statement is quite laughable, because science has been attempting to discover what has been labelled as unknowable since generations before us. There are certainly some questions that will never be answerable by science, hence it leaves us to hypothesis about possible answers to them without ever truly knowing whether we are right or wrong. For example(as I have stated before), how was space originally created (as in the vast emptiness of space), what created the original atom(not just in our universe, but of the vast entirety of space)? Unknowable information is the very information that scientists and theists seek alike.

When there is seemingly no logical/scientific answer to an unknown question, what is so irrational about seeking a supernatural alternative?

P.S Cut the fucking one liners, it makes you look like a stuck up prick.
 
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Science is not an authority, nor is it considered as such (i.e. something to be worshipped) by scientists. It is a method, a tool, for discovering knowledge/truth/whatever.

Science is not a religion.
I didn't say it was. I don't think it is. I was simply objecting to people who consider the fact that scientific knowledge gives them the right to rip people who disagree with them to shreds.

Look, I consider science as...well...the truth...but that doesn't mean I have to go to a Christian 'Well, there's proof that the Big Bang happened, so you're obviously stupid.'
 

Kwayera

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Fine, you want me to address your argument... First let me cut out half of your elitist boasting about dominating my quote.



'unknowable informantion that is not-worth-knowing.'

The irony of that statement is quite laughable, because science has been attempting to discover what has been labelled as unknowable since generations before us. There are certainly some questions that will never be answerable by science, hence it leaves us to hypothesis about possible answers to them without ever truly knowing whether we are right or wrong. For example(as I have stated before), how was space originally created (as in the vast emptiness of space), what created the original atom(not just in our universe, but of the vast entirety of space)? Unknowable information is the very information that scientists and theists seek alike.

When there is seemingly no logical/scientific answer to an unknown question, what is so irrational about seeking a supernatural alternative?

P.S Cut the fucking one liners, it makes you look like a stuck up prick.
Becuase that assumes there never will be a logical/scientific answer to an unknown question.
 

Garygaz

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Becuase that assumes there never will be a logical/scientific answer to an unknown question.
True it does, (remembering I'm agnostic) I still think there are certain questions that science hasn't answered about anti-matter, higgs particle and what not that may indeed be answered, yet its just a belief I have that unless some of the questions I posted above can be answered, then there is still that gap which could be filled by anything.
 

*TRUE*

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I used to go to church every second Sunday when I was younger, and I believed in God. Then when I grew older and heard of animal cruelty (cats being set on fire, animals being kicked to death), I knew a higher power such as God didn't exist. If he did, he wouldn't let that happen.

Just my view, it's right to me.
Where you attentive when at Church?
 

NCB619

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Science is not an authority, nor is it considered as such (i.e. something to be worshipped) by scientists. It is a method, a tool, for discovering knowledge/truth/whatever.

Science is not a religion.
It can be. If a person is that encompassed by it, they could treat it as a religion to themselves.
 
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True it does, (remembering I'm agnostic) I still think there are certain questions that science hasn't answered about anti-matter, higgs particle and what not that may indeed be answered, yet its just a belief I have that unless some of the questions I posted above can be answered, then there is still that gap which could be filled by anything.
you are ignorance personified,
why do you continue to equate legitimate scientific mysteries with the mysteriousness of a 'god', perhaps you simple minds cannot comphrehend how 'science' works. 1000 years ago you would have pointed to the unexplained mysteriousness of earthquakes, ecplises etc as proof of a 'higher power', and when/if physics better understand 'anti-matter' etc, your mind will simply find a new unexplained 'mystery', and again you will falsely percieve it as 'proof' we cannot dismiss the notion of 'god'.
Your mind has succesfully capitulated itself to a peculiar and old fashioned (and cowardly) agnostism, giving in too primitve pattern-seeking mechanisms.
This is to be expected and is nothing new, but again as some of as have succefully raised our conscious to the limitations of the human mind, you are not to articulate such pedestrain wish-wash, it makes us feel unclean, you must leave us out of it.
 

Garygaz

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you are ignorance personified,
why do you continue to equate legitimate scientific mysteries with the mysteriousness of a 'god', perhaps you simple minds cannot comphrehend how 'science' works. 1000 years ago you would have pointed to the unexplained mysteriousness of earthquakes, ecplises etc as proof of a 'higher power', and when/if physics better understand 'anti-matter' etc, your mind will simply find a new unexplained 'mystery', and again you will falsely percieve it as 'proof' we cannot dismiss the notion of 'god'.
Your mind has succesfully capitulated itself to a peculiar and old fashioned (and cowardly) agnostism, giving in too primitve pattern-seeking mechanisms.
This is to be expected and is nothing new, but again as some of as have succefully raised our conscious to the limitations of the human mind, you are not to articulate such pedestrain wish-wash, it makes us feel unclean, you must leave us out of it.
Look, you failed to answer any of my questions, you answered your own questions, and made up answers for me. ARE YOU RETARDED OR DELUSIONAL?

Type a goddamn answer without bending rhetoric to try and make yourself seem more correct than you are, a 2 year old can see through it. READ BRADCUBES POST. It is entirely possible science could bottom out at a point, where its limitations are met, i.e space before the big bang, leaving questions that can never be answered. The singularity which occurred at the beginning of the big bang required a temperature of infinite, which is impossible. So, to try and find a more correct answer, scientists theorised more, and more. Most of the theories to do with the big bang are theories of theories of theories, none of which can be tested.

According to your profile, your probably 18 or 19, yet you type like you have some god dam prophetic knowledge higher than some tard with a doctorate of philosophy. Guess what, I bet you know shit about string theory, quantum physics, and the big bang. Read it, then type something with substance not bullshit.
 

Ben Netanyahu

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haha, quantum physics
not really
quantum mechanics
quantum theory
quantum chemistry
quantum of solace

garygaz said:
none of which can be tested.
that's actually untrue.
but not quantum physics, imo

i see what you're saying, but i think it's a little dumb. effectively:

2000 years ago some guy did lots of fantastic stuff.
people followed him
christianity became like, important
God invented
WE CAN'T DISPROVE THIS INVENTION
THEREFORE IT POSSIBLY EXISTS

well, yes, but that's not really a statement of any substance, and it makes me question what you're all bickering about...
 

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