Does God exist? (15 Viewers)

[P_Dilemma]

That seems to be the trademark of the hypocritical Christian who, ironically, claims atheists are close minded.

Aren't they, though? They'd be like "God does not exist. Period." How is that open minded.

I'm agnostic i.e. haven't decided. Now that's open minded. Well, more than most.

-P_D

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm agnostic i.e. haven't decided. Now that's open minded. Well, more than most.

I don't think that's agnostic at all, haven't decided is very different from saying 'ultimately we cannot know'. As I've said probably only a page back, I agree with Bertrand Russel when he said - I am philisophically an agnostic, but in "real world" terms the word 'atheist' better describes my beliefs.

 

[Indian Princess]

Yes, I can prove that God exist, because Hindus considers Cows as God and worship them, and there are billions of cows in the world therefore God exist.

 

[S1M0]

Yes, I can prove that God exist, because Hindus considers Cows as God and worship them, and there are billions of cows in the world therefore God exist.

You have NO idea how much of a flaming you're gonna get for that.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm pretty sure that's a troll guys... In fact it's "Aryanbeauty"s troll.

 

[Jachie]

lawl. sif Indian Princess is serious there.

Aaaanyway. I believe in God. I was not brought up in a religious family; my dad grew up as a Catholic but rebelled against it when he was a teenager, and my mother is Agnostic. For years I considered myself an "Athiest," but in the past few years I really started to think about things, and the more I thought about it the more I believed that God existed.

I used to call myself Christian, but now I'm not so sure. I'm not really prepared to label myself as anything now, be it a Christian or a Catholic or a Buddhist, because I don't know if I believe every aspect of those religions. The only thing I am sure about is my faith. I do believe there is a God. I don't believe the whole word was created in seven days and seven nights or whatever. I just think life is far too complex and special to have been created by mere chance.

We will never know if God exists or not. I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you all that He exists, because I don't have the evidence. That's why it's called "faith", no?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I just think life is far too complex and special to have been created by mere chance.

Why do you think that though? For starters might I offer up to you that 'by magic' seems to be more of a problem than the tiniest of chances.

 

[Jachie]

Why do you think that though? For starters might I offer up to you that 'by magic' seems to be more of a problem than the tiniest of chances.

Because life is far too complex and special to have been created by mere chance. That's basically it in a nutshell.

 

[HotShot]

I'm pretty sure that's a troll guys... In fact it's "Aryanbeauty"s troll.

no doubt.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Because life is far too complex and special to have been created by mere chance. That's basically it in a nutshell.

Yes but what about life being 'complex and special' means that it couldn't have been created by 'mere chance'?

 

[Jachie]

Yes but what about life being 'complex and special' means that it couldn't have been created by 'mere chance'?

The complexness and specialness? Look, I know I'm repeating myself, but that's really it. I look at life, I look at humans, I look at the universe, and it makes no sense to me that there is no true purpose or reason to it all; that it all exists because of a random coincidence.

 

[withoutaface]

People believe in God because they feel the need to have some kind of framework to base their life around. I know because I was a Christian and strived for belief up until I became a raving libertarian nutcase, at which point I didn't need religion to give my life direction any more.

Jachie: But it's not mere chance, more process of deduction, as each necessary part of life was created and built upon. For example cells appeared first as just membranes with not much inside, then some developed chlorophyll, mitochondria etc. Then cells began to interact with each other, creating multi-cellular organisms. Essentially this means that the chance because a case of one in 10x (where x is the number of alternatives to a membrane, or a cell as we know it, whatever), rather than x^10 and hence it seems somewhat more plausible than random chance.

EDIT: To rephrase. Looking at humans. You don't have teeth out of random chance, you have teeth because one out of a million prehistoric animals had them, and it was advantageous, so they flourished. Works the same for pretty much every other aspect of your body.

 

[Jachie]

Jachie: But it's not mere chance, more process of deduction, as each necessary part of life was created and built upon. For example cells appeared first as just membranes with not much inside, then some developed chlorophyll, mitochondria etc. Then cells began to interact with each other, creating multi-cellular organisms. Essentially this means that the chance because a case of one in 10x (where x is the number of alternatives to a membrane, or a cell as we know it, whatever), rather than x^10 and hence it seems somewhat more plausible than random chance.

EDIT: To rephrase. Looking at humans. You don't have teeth out of random chance, you have teeth because one out of a million prehistoric animals had them, and it was advantageous, so they flourished. Works the same for pretty much every other aspect of your body.

I accept all of that, waf. I do believe in evolution and I'm aware of how adaptation works. I'm talking about the more philosophical view on life.

 

[withoutaface]

As in a "who created the universe" view or a "who created the first cells" one?

 

[bshoc]

As in a "who created the universe" view or a "who created the first cells" one?

Exactly, and not just "who", but also "why."

Everything in the universe is governed by laws, laws of physics etc. The existance of these laws suggests the existance of a law maker.

 

[Jachie]

That's it.

I'm not a philosopher - hell, I only ever really think about it when I get into my rare "deep" moods. But I mean, look at how humans grow from babies to adults, how plants can grow from seeds in the ground. I know the scientific explanation behind it, and I accept them 100%. But in the back of my mind, I have to wonder how such complex, perfect systems came to be. You know? Some people are able to chalk it off to the "mere chance" that was our our universe was supposedly created, but that is what I can't accept. I don't have the answers, but I do believe there's more to it than that.

 

[withoutaface]

Since when? The laws are completely arbitrary, and we only consider them intuitive because we live in the world governed by them.

 

[withoutaface]

That's it.

I'm not a philosopher - hell, I only ever really think about it when I get into my rare "deep" moods. But I mean, look at how humans grow from babies to adults, how plants can grow from seeds in the ground. I know the scientific explanation behind it, and I accept them 100%. But in the back of my mind, I have to wonder how such complex, perfect systems came to be. You know? Some people are able to chalk it off to the "mere chance" that was our our universe was supposedly created, but that is what I can't accept. I don't have the answers, but I do believe there's more to it than that.

I'd say the chances of the universe creating itself are greater than a supreme being more complex than the universe creating themselves and then creating the universe. As said previously the systems may seem perfect because that's the world we live in, it's what we experience every day, when in fact that laws of the universe are completely arbitrary.

On a side note I admire that you're able to truly critically analyse your own belief, because I don't see many who do.

 

[bshoc]

Since when? The laws are completely arbitrary, and we only consider them intuitive because we live in the world governed by them.

Why is the speed of light the speed of light? and why can this be so easily related back to other types of energy within the context of a single system or interpretation?

Perfect implementation by random chance? If it requires intelligence to interpret, and this interpretation is consistant and correct, it is far more likely that intelligence, rather than random chance, was used to create it.

 

[bshoc]

That's it.

I'm not a philosopher - hell, I only ever really think about it when I get into my rare "deep" moods. But I mean, look at how humans grow from babies to adults, how plants can grow from seeds in the ground. I know the scientific explanation behind it, and I accept them 100%. But in the back of my mind, I have to wonder how such complex, perfect systems came to be. You know? Some people are able to chalk it off to the "mere chance" that was our our universe was supposedly created, but that is what I can't accept. I don't have the answers, but I do believe there's more to it than that.

Exactly, science can give you an explanation for the current process of human growth, the argument of human life, or life in general, can always be wound back in time to a point where science no longer has an explanation.